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    Ched Evans

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    RRC
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by RRC on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 3:25 pm

    Sorry, Alvo, I can't remember where I read it.

    I did know that the case had gone to the CCRC.
    Unlike you I doubt whether the verdict has much chance of being overturned without significant new evidence, not simply blackening the name of the girl.

    I still don't get why people who have not read ALL the evidence are questioning the verdict on the basis on one point.
    If Evans was not a public figure, would anyone be arguing about the verdict?
    If he was not a footballer, would we be dicussiing it in this forum?



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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 3:27 pm

    Have any of those in this thread, who believe that Ched is definitely guilty actually looked on his website? There is cctv footage of the girl worth looking at. The section on facts of the case is quite interesting, as are the tweets of the 'victim' to her mates bragging about what she's going to spend her money on when she wins big.

    Worth a look.

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by chicken on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 3:31 pm


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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by chicken on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 3:32 pm

    Mostyn wrote:Have any of those in this thread, who believe that Ched is definitely guilty actually looked on his website? There is cctv footage of the girl worth looking at. The section on facts of the case is quite interesting, as are the tweets of the 'victim' to her mates bragging about what she's going to spend her money on when she wins big.

    Worth a look.

    I've not said whether he's not guilty or guilty as I don't know the ins and outs of the case, all I know is that a jury who has heard all the evidence, has found him guilty and convicted him of rape.

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by chicken on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 3:36 pm

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by RRC on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 3:38 pm

    Mostyn wrote:Have any of those in this thread, who believe that Ched is definitely guilty actually looked on his website? There is cctv footage of the girl worth looking at. The section on facts of the case is quite interesting, as are the tweets of the 'victim' to her mates bragging about what she's going to spend her money on when she wins big.

    Worth a look.

    I have seen his website but I didn't find it convincing - it's like "well, he would say that, wouldn't he."
    I'm sure he's had the best legal help and advice that money can buy, unlike his victim.

    What she looks like, and what her mates said or did at any time, are irrelevant to what happened in the offence and the evidence in the case. Should we judge books by their covers? It's not a beauty contest.

    The jury and the Court of Appeal have heard ALL the evidence, and I can accept their findings unless new evidence xomes to light. Why can't you?




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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by AlvoRAM on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 3:41 pm

    RRC wrote:Sorry, Alvo, I can't remember where I read it.

    I did know that the case had gone to the CCRC.
    Unlike you I doubt whether the verdict has much chance of being overturned without significant new evidence, not simply blackening the name of the girl.

    I still don't get why people who have not read ALL the evidence are questioning the verdict on the basis on one point.
    If Evans was not a public figure, would anyone be arguing about the verdict?
    If he was not a footballer, would we be dicussiing it in this forum?

    I have read far more than I would have liked to, not the sort of thing I would have liked to look into to be honest, but I started and couldn't stop, and what is done is done. Even so I still cannot make my mind up. What I think is dangerous though, is the publicity surrounding the case. I guarantee this case will lead to more blokes being charged with raping their one night stands, because she regrets it the next day, or because she thinks she too can get her 'big pay day.'

    Sorry if I also gave you the wrong impression. I don't think his conviction will be quashed, I don't know enough to say either way. I just meant that there is still that chance. And people should be very careful about destroying the life of a man who could still turn out to be innocent.

    It seems to me that the CCRC were hinting in their announcement that they would not be fast-tracking the case if it had no merit. Though I could be reading that wrong. What do you think?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ched-evans-conviction-to-be-fasttracked-by-watchdog-investigating-miscarriages-of-justice-9804380.html
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 3:49 pm

    RRC wrote:
    Mostyn wrote:Have any of those in this thread, who believe that Ched is definitely guilty actually looked on his website? There is cctv footage of the girl worth looking at. The section on facts of the case is quite interesting, as are the tweets of the 'victim' to her mates bragging about what she's going to spend her money on when she wins big.

    Worth a look.

    I have seen his website but I didn't find it convincing - it's like "well, he would say that, wouldn't he."
    I'm sure he's had the best legal help and advice that money can buy, unlike his victim.

    What she looks like, and what her mates said or did at any time, are irrelevant to what happened in the offence and the evidence in the case. Should we judge books by their covers? It's not a beauty contest.

    The jury and the Court of Appeal have heard ALL the evidence, and I can accept their findings unless new evidence xomes to light. Why can't you?

    But you're saying that you agree she was too drunk to consent, yet NO evidence confirms this. If you're barely conscious and intoxicated, you cannot squat in heels to pick up a pizza, as well as squatting to urinate and several other things.

    The WHOLE conviction was based upon her ability to consent. Yet one of the accused was found not guilty!?!?!?!?!
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by RRC on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 3:51 pm

    AlvoRAM wrote:It seems to me that the CCRC were hinting in their announcement that they would not be fast-tracking the case if it had no merit. Though I could be reading that wrong. What do you think?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ched-evans-conviction-to-be-fasttracked-by-watchdog-investigating-miscarriages-of-justice-9804380.html

    The report is not very clear but I think the comments of the spokesperson are probably
    from Evans' legal team, not the CCRC, so there may be a bit of wishful thinking.

    Don't see any reason why the case should be fast-tracked ahead of cases that have
    been in the queue for a long time, especially those where the person is in still custody,
    unlike Evans who out is on licence.




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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by AlvoRAM on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 3:51 pm

    The spokesperson added that a request had been made by Evans’ legal team to prioritise the matter, so “in line with our published policy on prioritisation, and in relation to the facts of the case and the issues raised in Mr Evans’s application to us… we now expect our substantive investigation to begin within the next few weeks.”

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by chicken on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 4:14 pm

    Is he getting fast tracked because of who he is?
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 5:00 pm

    chicken wrote:Is he getting fast tracked because of who he is?

    I would imagine his legal team would've convinced them that the publicity, both positive and negative, combined with the witch-hunt (perceived to be preventing him resuming his livelihood) are both spiralling out of control. They must also have some good new evidence to fast-track it, so they must feel that there are good grounds.
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 5:00 pm

    Well I'm convinced.

    Evans, a fine upstanding gentleman of high moral values has obviously been fitted up by all concerned. The police, the crown prosecution service, the prosecution lawyers, the whole of the jury, the judge and the appeal judges, all Wednesday fans of course, should hold their heads in shame. They have put poor old Ched through hell for no good reason. I think it's high time that the young 'lady' concerned offered a full unconditional apology for ruining his life, while she just carries on unaffected.

    While we're at it let's get Stuart Hall and Max Clifford out, apparently they "never did it gov" either. No reason to believe they're not telling the truth as far as I can see Apparently Jimmy Saville was only 'having a bit of fun' as well.
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 5:04 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:Well I'm convinced.

    Evans, a fine upstanding gentleman of high moral values has obviously been fitted up by all concerned. The police, the crown prosecution service, the prosecution lawyers, the whole of the jury, the judge and the appeal judges, all Wednesday fans of course, should hold their heads in shame. They have put poor old Ched through hell for no good reason. I think it's high time that the young 'lady' concerned offered a full unconditional apology for ruining his life, while she just carries on unaffected.

    While we're at it let's get Stuart Hall and Max Clifford out, apparently they "never did it gov" either. No reason to believe they're not telling the truth as far as I can see Apparently Jimmy Saville was only 'having a bit of fun' as well.

    that's the view of someone who's not read any of the facts thrown up in the case. I bet you hated the Birmingham 6 being released!

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by chicken on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 5:05 pm

    Why didn't they do all these appeals whilst he was inside?
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by RRC on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 5:10 pm

    chicken wrote:Why didn't they do all these appeals whilst he was inside?

    They did - The Court of Appeal turned down his appeal two years ago.

    He's trying his luck with the Criminal Cases Review Commission now.

    What next - the European Court?




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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by AlvoRAM on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 5:12 pm

    chicken wrote:Why didn't they do all these appeals whilst he was inside?

    It's interesting. He has (for the most part) served his sentence, and yet he still pursues this. There are 2 ways of looking at it. Either he genuinely is innocent and wants nothing more than to clear his name. Or he has just realised how badly this is going to affect his income, and money means more to him than his freedom. Maybe its a bit of both.

    Although remember he did try and appeal. But the process demands that either there is new evidence, or good grounds to consider the sentence inappropriate afaik. What happens when the original evidence was enough to throw doubt over the conviction in 99% of cases? (You know, when high profile footballers, and the media, are not involved)
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 5:13 pm

    Not if they were innocent but I work on the age old saying of "innocent until proven guilty" not innocent until you admit it..

    I havent read all of the court papers as I haven't with any other case. I have a life which doesn't include double checking everybody elses work, so I have to trust that Rolls Royce workers make their engines propely, brain surgeons don't leave instruments in patients heads, and astronauts check that evrything works before they take off. If they get it wrong it is an isolated case which doesn't necessitate me checking up on them in the future. I also trust that the plethora of people in this case got it right, if not the angelic Ched will have his day, but I won't hold my breath
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 5:16 pm

    chicken wrote:Why didn't they do all these appeals whilst he was inside?

    Chicken, having just spent 6 months in Nottingham prison when I shouldn't have, these kind of things are more emotive to me than anyone else in this thread. I cannot go into too much detail as there is now an investigation into the conduct of the police and the CPS, and maybe even the judge, depending on how it develops.

    My 'educated opinion' is that the amount of criticism the CPS received a few years back for the lack of convictions out of complaints of sexual crimes has led to a backlash. The stats now look good, highest ever conviction rate. What it doesn't tell you is the amount of appeals won and the amount of people held on remand to be acquitted at the end of it all when the accuser admits the police made the accusations!!

    Sadly, in my own court case, there were disclosure issues. In which vital evidence was either omitted or mis-represented in a perverse attempt to get the conviction.

    My case won't be fast-tracked, but I no longer believe in the justice system. I will come out of it totally vindicated, and with a tidy sum in my bank, straight out of the tax-payers purse.

    I don't believe Ched Evans is a rapist, and for a few reasons, but the fact that the CPS pushed the case, not the 'victim', the victim's promise of six-figure compensation influences things too.
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 5:16 pm

    oh, I forgot to add, you cannot do much from inside prison.
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by RRC on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 5:19 pm

    Mostyn wrote:oh, I forgot to add, you cannot do much from inside prison.

    His legal team were in jail when they tried to appeal the case?

    Well, that may be a first! . Digging LOL roll



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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 5:27 pm

    RRC wrote:
    Mostyn wrote:oh, I forgot to add, you cannot do much from inside prison.

    His legal team were in jail when they tried to appeal the case?

    Well, that may be a first! . Digging  LOL roll

    Being facetious doesn't suit you RRC.

    The common tactic regarding disclosure is the defence gets a bulk of evidence on the day of the trial and has no time to review it. (this is the basis of many appeals), in the courtroom, you cannot shout out when something is overlooked or misquoted, or as I discovered, you are threatened with the case being heard in your absence.

    In prison, you are often deprived of mail until your release. My legal representative sent me the same paperwork 6 times and I never got it once in spite of asking, yet upon my release, there were 6 lots of the paperwork. There is a new regime in prison at the moment, which prohibits phonecalls to between 2-4pm, which clashes with outdoor exercise, hence all the rioting you don't get to hear about on the outside.

    You have to trust that when you post mail, it actually get's to the intended recipient, and it doesn't. When convicted (as opposed to on remand) you get 3 visits per month, which you have to divide between friends, family and legal visits.

    I would suggest that maybe Evans wouldn't have been able to review the evidence. There has been criticism of his original legal team, and he's since changed his legal team.

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by New England Ram on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 5:27 pm

    Sorry to hear about your situation Mostyn....
    I have read little about this Evans situation just glanced at headlines.
    Guilty or not Guilty...I really have no clue.
    Guilty of making a bad/stupid decision on the night.. GUILTY as you know what...bottom line even if he was not guilty of the actual act he is truly guilty for being a twa* and putting himself in the position he is now.
    So stupid...like many other so called sporting celebrities...



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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 5:40 pm

    New England Ram wrote:Sorry to hear about your situation Mostyn....
    I have read little about this Evans situation just glanced at headlines.
    Guilty or not Guilty...I really have no clue.
    Guilty of making a bad/stupid decision on the night.. GUILTY as you know what...bottom line even if he was not guilty of the actual act  he is truly guilty for being a twa* and putting himself in the position he is now.
    So stupid...like many other so called sporting celebrities...

    The prosecution in the Evans case has such a weak case that they used tactics to manipulate the jury, in particular the reference to him being a footballer, with a high-profile, with arrogance. I think Evans said something along the lines of "I don't need to rape anyone, I can pull any time I want.. I'm famous", which he apparently meant quite sincerely, even if it is arrogant. This was played out as if he was above the rules of normal people, and there was references to the behaviour of footballers and their egos and attitudes, which it's said swayed the jury.
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by New England Ram on Sun 16 Nov 2014, 5:49 pm

    Mostyn wrote:
    New England Ram wrote:Sorry to hear about your situation Mostyn....
    I have read little about this Evans situation just glanced at headlines.
    Guilty or not Guilty...I really have no clue.
    Guilty of making a bad/stupid decision on the night.. GUILTY as you know what...bottom line even if he was not guilty of the actual act  he is truly guilty for being a twa* and putting himself in the position he is now.
    So stupid...like many other so called sporting celebrities...

    The prosecution in the Evans case has such a weak case that they used tactics to manipulate the jury, in particular the reference to him being a footballer, with a high-profile, with arrogance. I think Evans said something along the lines of "I don't need to rape anyone, I can pull any time I want.. I'm famous", which he apparently meant quite sincerely, even if it is arrogant. This was played out as if he was above the rules of normal people, and there was references to the behaviour of footballers and their egos and attitudes, which it's said swayed the jury.

    Yeah like I said mate..not really followed it all....but if ever there was time to be humble and keep your gob shut...looking at your info above...he clearly missed it.




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