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    Ched Evans

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    purpleram

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by purpleram on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 11:42 am

    Bloody hell, some of these arguments are akin to if you complain about immigration your a racist, if you question evidence your somehow for rape!!!

    My last word as I agree unless something new emerges then we are just going round and round.
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by RRC on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 11:52 am

    purpleram wrote:My last word as I agree unless something new emerges then we are just going round and round.

    Totally agree. Surely we've said everything there is to say after 9 pages and 200 posts?

    Unless there's something COMPLETELY NEW on this, I won't be commenting on this again.



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    MadAmster

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by MadAmster on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 1:50 pm

    On a broader note, my, how times change.

    When I was a lad I heard many a tale of "Grab a granny" night at Derby Tiffany's. Aka Thursday. This was, so I was told, the night that "older" women (not sure of the age range) went out to get 2 things, namely, drunk and laid. I have been told that they were pretty successful in their quest.

    Their "conquests" would face arrest if that happened these days.

    Before anybody jumps down my throat, I am not condoning, nor condemning, anything or anyone here. If a woman is out of her brain then you should get her in a taxi home rather than take advantage. I merely wish to point out how a Derby Thursday night out, apparently, used to be could be seen as a crime these days.

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by AlvoRAM on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 2:09 pm

    chicken wrote:
    Mostyn wrote:
    chicken wrote:He's actually been found guilty of forcing himself on a girl who wasn't able to stop him and who had said no or was unable, due to intoxication, to say no.  That is what he has been found guilty of, not just simply having sex with a drunk girl as you seem to think that's what it was.

    Whether you believe his version that's up to you, but that is what he has been prosecuted for.  The sentence handed down to him reflected the judge's opinion of the severity of the case.

    so why wasn't the other guy found guilty? Does that not even make you think?

    Because she agreed to sex with him prior to getting to the hotel room. Evans turned up in a taxi later.

    You clearly haven't read the facts, or the timeline of events have you?

    She met Clayton at a takeaway, between the bar and the hotel for the very first time. She didn't drink any more after the bar.... So the original question still stands, especially as she would merely have sobered up even more between meeting Clayton at the takeaway and Ched at the hotel!!!

    EDit: although, having read further posts, I do agree, were perhaps flogging a dead horse here. We all have different opinions, and they're not going to change. What is great is that we have discussed them in a lively, yet friendly manner. Thumbs up

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by chicken on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:15 pm

    No you're right, I haven't read the transcript of the court case but what I have read is that his mate sent him a text to tell him he had a girl, Evans turned up later, persuaded the night porter to give him a key against the hotel policy, Evans had oral sex with the girl after his mate had done with her, then full sex, despite having a girlfriend waiting at home for him, once they'd done with her they both left the building via a fire exit, leaving the girl who supposedly wasn't drunk asleep only to wake up in the morning covered in her own urine. Is that about right?
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    purpleram

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by purpleram on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:18 pm

    chicken wrote:No you're right, I haven't read the transcript of the court case but what I have read is that his mate sent him a text to tell him he had a girl, Evans turned up later, persuaded the night porter to give him a key against the hotel policy, Evans had oral sex with the girl after his mate had done with her, then full sex, despite having a girlfriend waiting at home for him, once they'd done with her they both left the building via a fire exit, leaving the girl who supposedly wasn't drunk asleep only to wake up in the morning covered in her own urine. Is that about right?

    And they say the age of Romance is dead, no one comes out of this with any credit.
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:20 pm

    Apart from the jury maybe, Purps

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by AlvoRAM on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 5:52 pm

    chicken wrote:No you're right, I haven't read the transcript of the court case but what I have read is that his mate sent him a text to tell him he had a girl, Evans turned up later, persuaded the night porter to give him a key against the hotel policy, Evans had oral sex with the girl after his mate had done with her, then full sex, despite having a girlfriend waiting at home for him, once they'd done with her they both left the building via a fire exit, leaving the girl who supposedly wasn't drunk asleep only to wake up in the morning covered in her own urine. Is that about right?

    Depends what you mean by "Is that right?" If you mean did those things happen, I'm pretty sure most of the things you mentioned occurred, but if you meant is that a good account of what happened, then no, not even close, it's a small selection of the facts, some of the ones that reflect badly on Ched (and Clayton to be fair.)

    Some of the details are sordid regardless of legality, so I do not really want to detail them here, but the information is freely available in several places if you would like to look.

    Edit.. Sorry I should have given you a clue. Look out for the following. What the night porter had to say. Who approached who initially. What both Ched and Clayton independently stated the girl had not only consented to, but asked for. The friends that ched had told to wait for him as he wouldn't be long (he didn't go in expecting anything) What those friends did instead of waiting. What the doctor had to say about her level of intoxication. These are a few of the key points you didn't mention that you really should take a look at.

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by chicken on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 6:02 pm

    Of course it reflects badly on them. It's an indication of how they behave on a night out. Whatever happens with his appeal, imho he'll still be an arrogant tosser who has no regard for women as his actions have shown, both in his comments about how he's a footballer and can easily get women, his treatment and disregard for his girlfriend and his treatment of the victim.
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 6:04 pm

    I'm genuinely surprised at how passionately some of you feel about this case, without any apparent connection to those involved and I'd be interested to know whether you would equally passionate in his defence if Ched Evans had spent the last two years in jail for fraud or tax evasion ?
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    Mostyn

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 6:08 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:I'm genuinely surprised at how passionately some of you feel about this case, without any apparent connection to those involved and I'd be interested to know whether you would equally passionate in his defence if Ched Evans had spent the last two years in jail for fraud or tax evasion ?

    they're hardly the life-ruining stigma of a sexual offence conviction (if wrongful). It's also harder to misrepresent the evidence in those crimes too.
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 6:11 pm

    So thats a no then mostyn?
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 6:21 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:So thats a no then mostyn?

    possibly a big NO. But it's apples v oranges, you can't compare. You won't see me defending the likes of Rolf Harris or Max Clifford, and I don't think I have passionate defence of Ched Evans as much as I see a blatant flouting of the justice system to get a PR-inspired conviction.

    If they can get away with this on someone of such high-profile, then god help Joe Public and Johnny Nobody.
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 6:27 pm

    Well in my opinion and in my status as the worst amateur phsycologist in the world this thread has Ched Evans in the title but has little else to do with him. It seems to me that this is more about the boundaries and general worry by men about rape and the laws relating to it, that we may all encounter in our lives. On that score I don't think that average, everyday man needs to worry at all as most of us live well within the normal boundaries of decency and behaviour.

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by AlvoRAM on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:01 pm

    chicken wrote:Whatever happens with his appeal, imho he'll still be an arrogant tosser

    Now that I agree with. Why these people who have everything, money, friends, family, stunning partners and a career to die for, why they do things like this is beyond me, regardless of law, the bloke is a tosser. And I'm extremely surprised his missus has stood by him, rape or no rape, he's still a cheating scum bag.

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by AlvoRAM on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:08 pm

    And Loughie. Mostyn said it best, but I ask you this, would a fraudster or tax evader be on the receiving end of the same kind of witch hunt as Ched has received? Because the people dishing that out have done so with equal amounts of passion, albeit with less knowledge.
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Stockport Ram on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:55 pm

    chicken wrote:Of course it reflects badly on them. It's an indication of how they behave on a night out.  Whatever happens with his appeal, imho he'll still be an arrogant tosser who has no regard for women as his actions have shown, both in his comments about how he's a footballer and can easily get  women, his treatment and disregard for his girlfriend and his treatment of the victim.

    I entirely agree with that.

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by chicken on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:57 pm

    AlvoRAM wrote:And Loughie. Mostyn said it best, but I ask you this, would a fraudster or tax evader be on the receiving end of the same kind of witch hunt as Ched has received? Because the people dishing that out have done so with equal amounts of passion, albeit with less knowledge.


    You can't compare the crime of rape to the crime of fraud or tax evasion.

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by AlvoRAM on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 8:08 pm

    chicken wrote:
    AlvoRAM wrote:And Loughie. Mostyn said it best, but I ask you this, would a fraudster or tax evader be on the receiving end of the same kind of witch hunt as Ched has received? Because the people dishing that out have done so with equal amounts of passion, albeit with less knowledge.


    You can't compare the crime of rape to the crime of fraud or tax evasion.

    It wasn't me who made that comparison Chicken, I agree with you.
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 8:14 pm

    Sheffield United have retracted their offer to allow him to train there.

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by chicken on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 8:24 pm

    Mostyn wrote:Sheffield United have retracted their offer to allow him to train there.

    Did they actually make the inital offer, or were they forced to let him train by the PFA?
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 8:30 pm

    chicken wrote:
    Mostyn wrote:Sheffield United have retracted their offer to allow him to train there.

    Did they actually make the inital offer, or were they forced to let him train by the PFA?

    I dont think they can force anything, I only say that because you hear of all these players falling out of favour and being banished from training.

    I think maybe SUFC misread the vocal minority of their fans and underestimated the feelings of the general public.

    Whilst I want him to have (what I see as) a fairer trial, I wouldn't personally have invited him to train until his appeal was heard. He has enough money to fund his own training.

    I think it may have worked in his favour in terms of fast-tracking his appeal, but ultimately, the initial decision to allow him to train has generated a massive backlash. People who never heard of him now have strong feelings against him.

    He'd have been better sorting his appeal out first, as I doubt any club and supporter would welcome him until his name has been cleared. I don't understand the reasons behind him seeking to train with the club.

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by chicken on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 8:36 pm

    No, they didn't force it, it was a request by the PFA to allow him to train.
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 8:42 pm

    AlvoRAM wrote:And Loughie. Mostyn said it best, but I ask you this, would a fraudster or tax evader be on the receiving end of the same kind of witch hunt as Ched has received? Because the people dishing that out have done so with equal amounts of passion, albeit with less knowledge.

    My point wasn't to compare the crimes but to try and see whether it was Ched Evans or the crime that people were actually bothered about.

    By the way, for those eager to portray the girl involved as equally to blame, what was in this for her? As far as I can see she chose the toughest way to deal with this. If she was just some slapper looking for a quick buck surely she could have gone to the papers and made plenty. She could have chosen to just live with it and encountered none of the horrendous problems she has had to endure, but she risked ruining her life for what? I'm struggling to see why she would have pursued this unless she absolutely believed it.
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Thu 20 Nov 2014, 8:44 pm

    http://www.sufc.co.uk/news/article/sheffield-united-ched-evans-2094632.aspx

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    Re: Ched Evans

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