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    Ched Evans

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    AlvoRAM

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by AlvoRAM on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 9:28 am

    Hectors House wrote:
    AlvoRAM wrote:Having read a lot more of the case files since this thread was first started I have to say, his conviction is far far far away from clean cut.

    I met cara when we were 18. So I wasnt one to go out on a Saturday night, get drunk, and 'pull' a lass. But plenty of my friends were. Each time one of them did this, they were apparently raping the girl!!! That's the way the law works, if she's under the influence, she cannot consent. So how many of your friends and family are rapists? How many of YOU are rapists?

    Well i for one am absolutely no rapist i've never pulled a drunk lass..Thank you very much.

    Plus i think when you get a couple of mates to video your act from outside the window something is definately not right.

    Maybe not Hector. But I am damn sure you've slept with someone who has had a drink. Now if they were to bring charges, it would be up to a court to decide how drunk she was, months if not years after the fact. Which is impossible. So the law might as well say it's illegal to drink and bonk full stop!!!

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Ched, I don't know enough about the law or this case. But I am saying from what I've read (in independent sources) it is not clear cut. And this element of the law needs more clarity.
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    thatguyfromderby

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by thatguyfromderby on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 10:31 am

    AlvoRAM wrote:
    Hectors House wrote:
    AlvoRAM wrote:Having read a lot more of the case files since this thread was first started I have to say, his conviction is far far far away from clean cut.

    I met cara when we were 18. So I wasnt one to go out on a Saturday night, get drunk, and 'pull' a lass. But plenty of my friends were. Each time one of them did this, they were apparently raping the girl!!! That's the way the law works, if she's under the influence, she cannot consent. So how many of your friends and family are rapists? How many of YOU are rapists?

    Well i for one am absolutely no rapist i've never pulled a drunk lass..Thank you very much.

    Plus i think when you get a couple of mates to video your act from outside the window something is definately not right.

    Maybe not Hector. But I am damn sure you've slept with someone who has had a drink. Now if they were to bring charges, it would be up to a court to decide how drunk she was, months if not years after the fact. Which is impossible. So the law might as well say it's illegal to drink and bonk full stop!!!

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Ched, I don't know enough about the law or this case. But I am saying from what I've read (in independent sources) it is not clear cut. And this element of the law needs more clarity.

    The big issue here Alvo, is that she was drunk. Her friend pulled her. She consented to that (hence why he wasn't also sentenced). Evans supposedly later walked in on them during sex and joined in (which she did not consent to).

    Whilst lots of people have sex when drunk, there's still a pretty sizeable difference between meeting a person on a night out, chatting for a couple of hours and having sex whilst drunk as opposed to getting involved with an ongoing sex act with a person that is drunk that you've had little prior contact with.
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    purpleram

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by purpleram on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 12:23 pm

    thatguyfromderby wrote:
    AlvoRAM wrote:
    Hectors House wrote:
    AlvoRAM wrote:Having read a lot more of the case files since this thread was first started I have to say, his conviction is far far far away from clean cut.

    I met cara when we were 18. So I wasnt one to go out on a Saturday night, get drunk, and 'pull' a lass. But plenty of my friends were. Each time one of them did this, they were apparently raping the girl!!! That's the way the law works, if she's under the influence, she cannot consent. So how many of your friends and family are rapists? How many of YOU are rapists?

    Well i for one am absolutely no rapist i've never pulled a drunk lass..Thank you very much.

    Plus i think when you get a couple of mates to video your act from outside the window something is definately not right.

    Maybe not Hector. But I am damn sure you've slept with someone who has had a drink. Now if they were to bring charges, it would be up to a court to decide how drunk she was, months if not years after the fact. Which is impossible. So the law might as well say it's illegal to drink and bonk full stop!!!

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Ched, I don't know enough about the law or this case. But I am saying from what I've read (in independent sources) it is not clear cut. And this element of the law needs more clarity.

    The big issue here Alvo, is that she was drunk. Her friend pulled her. She consented to that (hence why he wasn't also sentenced). Evans supposedly later walked in on them during sex and joined in (which she did not consent to).

    Whilst lots of people have sex when drunk, there's still a pretty sizeable difference between meeting a person on a night out, chatting for a couple of hours and having sex whilst drunk as opposed to getting involved with an ongoing sex act with a person that is drunk that you've had little prior contact with.

    A lot of very drunk young men have sex with a lot of very drunk women every weekend in every city in the country.
    Many of these meet up very drunk and at the end of the night.

    This is different from a sober predator taking advantage of a drunk person.

    That said, people need to take responsibility for their own actions. Alcohol changes peoples personality, that's why they take it. Everyone who likes a drink to excess has woken up and thought WTF did I do last night.

    Evans has paid for his inappropriate behaviour and should be allowed to earn his living again.
    There are degrees of rape whatever some people say, and that's a consequence of adding the ambiguity of sobriety into it.
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    FatGab7

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by FatGab7 on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 3:11 pm

    What I don't get is this opinion that if you've served a sentence then you can automatically go to work. If you went for a job as a street sweeper I doubt you'd get it if the boss knew you had raped someone. It is difficult to get any job if you've been inside. Why should it be any different for Evans? The fact that he is a thoroughly vile individual who has not admitted his guilt and has basically smeared his victim in the time since is absolutely disgusting. (In my most humble opinion of course).
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    RRC
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by RRC on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 3:19 pm

    FatGab7 wrote:What I don't get is this opinion that if you've served a sentence then you can automatically go to work. If you went for a job as a street sweeper I doubt you'd get it if the boss knew you had raped someone. It is difficult to get any job if you've been inside. Why should it be any different for Evans? The fact that he is a thoroughly vile individual who has not admitted his guilt and has basically smeared his victim in the time since is absolutely disgusting. (In my most humble opinion of course).

    Well said, FG.

    As he will now be on the Sex Offenders Register that should, quite rightly, prevent him from
    being employed in any job that is likely bring him to contact with under 18s. I assume that
    SUFC has a ladies team and other groups that girls can join.



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    Hectors House

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Hectors House on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 3:27 pm

    AlvoRAM wrote:
    Hectors House wrote:
    AlvoRAM wrote:Having read a lot more of the case files since this thread was first started I have to say, his conviction is far far far away from clean cut.

    I met cara when we were 18. So I wasnt one to go out on a Saturday night, get drunk, and 'pull' a lass. But plenty of my friends were. Each time one of them did this, they were apparently raping the girl!!! That's the way the law works, if she's under the influence, she cannot consent. So how many of your friends and family are rapists? How many of YOU are rapists?

    Well i for one am absolutely no rapist i've never pulled a drunk lass..Thank you very much.

    Plus i think when you get a couple of mates to video your act from outside the window something is definately not right.


    Maybe not Hector. But I am damn sure you've slept with someone who has had a drink. Now if they were to bring charges, it would be up to a court to decide how drunk she was, months if not years after the fact. Which is impossible. So the law might as well say it's illegal to drink and bonk full stop!!!

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Ched, I don't know enough about the law or this case. But I am saying from what I've read (in independent sources) it is not clear cut. And this element of the law needs more clarity.

    Yes i have slept with my misses when weve had a drink......however i have NEVER gone out to try and pull a drunk woman because i know she wont say no. Sleeping with your drunk partner is a million miles away from what he did.
    Those guys planned everything, and still can't see any wrong doing
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    Mostyn

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 3:34 pm

    In the interest of balance:- http://www.chedevans.com/

    Introduction On 20 April 2012 Chedwyn Evans, a 23 year old professional footballer, was convicted of rape at Caernarfon Crown Court. On Friday 17th October at 5am he was released from custody and will continue the fight to clear his name.
    Chedwyn Evans maintains his absolute innocence and his family, friends and many who know the true facts of the case believe that his conviction was a gross miscarriage of justice.
    On 15 July 2014 Ched’s new legal team David Emanuel of Garden Court Chambers London and Shaun Draycott submitted an application to the Criminal Cases Review Commission which is the first step to a second appeal. They are confident in their submission.
    We believe that due to Ched’s profession, information that was not used by his original defence and other information that has been gathered since his conviction will in time overturn a wrongful conviction.
    For those who only read the media reports, this website endeavours to redress the balance by presenting the evidence in a balanced and accurate manner so that the public can assess the salient facts and make their own judgement.
    From the outset we would like to state that this website in no way seeks to undermine the seriousness of rape or trivialise the suffering that rape victims suffer. We recognise that rape is a terrible crime which, if committed, ought to carry a severe sentence. This website is not about the severity of the sentence, we are stating that Ched did not commit the crime of rape at all. Furthermore, we recognise and acknowledge that in rape cases the anonymity of the victim is a fundamental legal principle that should be upheld and respected.
    When reading this website these fundamental points should be kept in mind:
    It should be noted that the complainant who was alleged to have been raped in this case stated when interviewed by the police and subsequently maintained in Court that she could not remember anything at all, other than a very brief period in a take-away.
    She remembers being in the night club and waking up the next morning in the Premier Inn, a time span that specifically covers the entire sexual activity which led to Ched being convicted of rape and his co-accused Clayton McDonald acquitted.
    The only evidence of what sexual activity occurred came from the accounts of his co-accused Clayton McDonald who also had sex with the complainant and was found not guilty of rape, Ched, and the night porter who was listening outside the room.
    As this case revolves around the issue of intoxication and consent, it should be noted that it is established in the case of R V Bree that drunken consent to sexual intercourse is nevertheless consent in the eyes of the law. This does not mean that if a person is unconscious through drink or drugs it is acceptable to have sex with that person but rather, where an intoxicated person is functioning and able to make conscious decisions at the time of intercourse and then subsequently regrets that decision and decides to make a complaint of rape, her self-inflicted intoxication ought not to be considered as relevant to the issue of consent.
    The police arrested both Ched and Clayton at the station, they acknowledged that the only evidence that sexual activity had taken place was their admission. There was nocomplaint of rape, no forensic evidence, no injury and no complaint.
    Finally it should be noted that the burden of proof in criminal law lies with the Prosecution and that in order to gain a conviction the Prosecution must prove ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ that a crime was committed i.e. the Jury has to be sure an offence has taken place. Essentially, this means that following the submissions of the Prosecution if there remains any doubt that a crime has been committed the accused must be acquitted. It is not for the accused to prove his innocence.
    With the above in mind please read the following key facts and make up your own mind. If you are a football fan, please put aside your affiliations and assess this case on its own merits.
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    Mostyn

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 3:36 pm

    This is my post on another forum:-
    Posted Yesterday, 1:22 AM
    The cold hard fact is that the British legal system is all smoke and mirrors. The prosecution can 'neglect' to disclose evidence that could clearly prove innocence. Another cold hard fact is that juries can make mistakes. They only act on the evidence that they assume is truthful and complete.

    Personally, I have no opinion on Ched Evans innocence or guilt, but I do know that accused are now treated as guilty until proven innocence, and the onus has shifted on to the defence to prove that it was NOT rape.

    My friend just got cleared of 2 counts of rape. His solicitor spent 6 months trying to convince him to go guilty to get a lesser sentence and he refused to. Got to court, the accuser eventually admitted she made it all up to a) keep a job (she'd not been into work for a couple of days and told her bosses he wouldn't let her leave her house and he smashed her phone) and b) for the compensation to start a new life. The fact was that he spent all of that time on remand in prison. No apologies. No compensation. Reputation ruined. Mud sticks.

    Now I know the cases are different, but in my mate's case, I saw ALL of the statements made by so-called witnesses, and the accuser changed her statement FOUR times after police prompting and requests. In court, she basically said that police were called by her boss, and they just took the case and built it and she just did what THEY said.

    In Evans case, the co-accused got not guilty, which is confusing. Also, I find it hard to accept that a man has to be held accountable for his actions when drunk, yet the accuser was in no fit state to consent, ie. Not accountable.

    Rape as a crime has changed it's parameters drastically. Nowadays, if you have an argument with your missus, and then have make-up sex, in the eyes of the law, that is rape, as the missus has been pressurised into having sex.

    As for Sheff United, and Nigel Clough, the first thing he did was bomb out Marlon King, who we KNOW is a nasty piece of SaUsAgE ! I think there is enough doubt in Evans conviction that it almost feels fair for him to be allowed to clear his name and regain a life.

    Statistics say that 9-11% of people convicted are done so wrongly. Imagine if Evans IS innocent, his guilt has come as a result of pressure being put on the CPS to get sexual offence convictions in the wake of all the historic sex offence allegations that were covered up. Evans could potentially have spent what could've been the best career years in prison wrongly.

    Who knows. But until you've been accused of something you've not done, it's easy to assume everyone accused is guilty and that everything that happens in court is right and fair.
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    Hectors House

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Hectors House on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 3:59 pm

    Just out of interest Mostyn, if she was your daughter would you feel any different????

    The thing for me on reading the circumstances around what happened(and i know its paper talk) is they actively had a history of trying to find drunk woman. Why would one target drunk women other than thinking, if they where sober they probably wouldnt want to have sex with me.... thats what doesnt sit well with me.

    If Evans got drunk and then found out that a man had had sex with him (assuming he didnt think he was bisexual) would he feel like he had been raped if he couldnt remember giving consent.
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by RRC on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 4:04 pm

    Fair enough, Mostyn.
    His lawyers are appealing the verdict and, if they get it overturned, he will be cleared.
    Has one application to appeal already been turned down because there is no new evidence?

    I've read a fair bit about this, including the stuff you posted, which I don't find convincing.

    The simple fact is that Evans had sex with a lass with whom he had no previous contact, who did not
    know him at all, and did not know that Evans was going to turn up later (after a text from his mate).
    She says she did not give her consent to Evans and I'm inclined to believe her, based on the facts.



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    Loughborough Ram

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 4:21 pm

    I don't know why there are so many people willing to accept his version of the events. As far as I'm concerned he has been tried fairly and found guilty, the jury will have heard all of the facts, not just Ched evans understandably slanted version and they said that he was guilty. To me that is the end of it unless he can come up with some new evidence which can add some mitigation to his actions, which in truth must be highly unlikely.

    He raped her, whether he likes it or not. He may feel hard done by for whatever reason but howmany convicted criminals feel the same? Most I would guess.

    In terms of his future career, I guess he will always find a club who will pay him as it always comes down to money, and the riches on offer for success, so I have some sympathy for Sheff Utd who paid a decent amount for his services but have effectively had to write it off through no fault of their own.
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    Mostyn

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 4:42 pm

    Hectors House wrote:Just out of interest Mostyn, if she was your daughter would you feel any different????

    The thing for me on reading the circumstances around what happened(and i know its paper talk) is they actively had a history of trying to find drunk woman. Why would one target drunk women other than thinking, if they where sober they probably wouldnt want to have sex with me.... thats what doesnt sit well with me.

    If Evans got drunk and then found out that a man had had sex with him (assuming he didnt think he was bisexual) would he feel like he had been raped if he couldnt remember  giving consent.

    If it was my daughter, my emotions would overrule any logic regardless of whether he was guilty or not, but if it was my daughter, the idea of her giving consent would perhaps sicken me anyway.

    I'd be very worried as to how my daughter was fishcake-faced, in a kebab house, without anyone to look after her, and in a self-inflicted vulnerable position.

    I suspect the 'actively pursuing drunk women' comment is a sneakily devised play on words by the prosecution using the fact that 9 out of 10 people on a night out drink, and a high percentage of people are actively on the pull, putting the two together, you concoct a powerful statement, which is only that.

    The fact that she doesn't remember anything, does not make Evans a rapist. The fact that they tried Donaldson for rape too makes it very unclear. Had they only tried Evans, I'd be more inclined to believe his guilt.
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    Mostyn

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 4:43 pm

    RRC wrote:Fair enough, Mostyn.
    His lawyers are appealing the verdict and, if they get it overturned, he will be cleared.
    Has one application to appeal already been turned down because there is no new evidence?

    I've read a fair bit about this, including the stuff you posted, which I don't find convincing.

    The simple fact is that Evans had sex with a lass with whom he had no previous contact, who did not
    know him at all, and did not know that Evans was going to turn up later (after a text from his mate).
    She says she did not give her consent to Evans and I'm inclined to believe her, based on the facts.

    That last paragraph isn't strictly true. Not giving consent is very different to not remembering anything.
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    Mostyn

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 4:48 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:I don't know why there are so many people willing to accept his version of the events. As far as I'm concerned he has been tried fairly and found guilty, the jury will have heard all of the facts, not just Ched evans understandably slanted version and they said that he was guilty. To me that is the end of it unless he can come up with some new evidence which can add some mitigation to his actions, which in truth must be highly unlikely.

    He raped her, whether he likes it or not. He may feel hard done by for whatever reason but howmany convicted criminals feel the same? Most I would guess.

    In terms of his future career, I guess he will always find a club who will pay him as it always comes down to money, and the riches on offer for success, so I have some sympathy for Sheff Utd who paid a decent amount for his services but have effectively had to write it off through no fault of their own.

    That's a very black and white view Loughie, but the world isn't black and white. It's his word against her guessing, as she cannot remember. I can assure you that not everything in court is 'fair' and if he wins his appeal, you'll be shocked to discover some of the smoke and mirrors tactics used by both prosecution and defence in a courtroom. My own personal experience is that the truth matters not, and it's only what can be proven (in defence) or implied (in prosecution) that matters.

    I sincerely hope you're never accused of anything you didn't do, particularly a sexual offence, because you're generally fucked unless you can prove without reasonable doubt that you're telling the truth. The problem innocent people have is that they don't take measures to protect themselves against accusations, why would they?
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    Mostyn

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 4:49 pm

    for the record, I don't specifically believe Evans, I just think legally, you cannot find him guilty of being a rapist based on the evidence.
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Hectors House on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 4:53 pm

    Mostyn wrote:
    Hectors House wrote:Just out of interest Mostyn, if she was your daughter would you feel any different????

    The thing for me on reading the circumstances around what happened(and i know its paper talk) is they actively had a history of trying to find drunk woman. Why would one target drunk women other than thinking, if they where sober they probably wouldnt want to have sex with me.... thats what doesnt sit well with me.

    If Evans got drunk and then found out that a man had had sex with him (assuming he didnt think he was bisexual) would he feel like he had been raped if he couldnt remember  giving consent.

    If it was my daughter, my emotions would overrule any logic regardless of whether he was guilty or not, but if it was my daughter, the idea of her giving consent would perhaps sicken me anyway.

    I'd be very worried as to how my daughter was fishcake-faced, in a kebab house, without anyone to look after her, and in a self-inflicted vulnerable position.

    I suspect the 'actively pursuing drunk women' comment is a sneakily devised play on words by the prosecution using the fact that 9 out of 10 people on a night out drink, and a high percentage of people are actively on the pull, putting the two together, you concoct a powerful statement, which is only that.

    The fact that she doesn't remember anything, does not make Evans a rapist. The fact that they tried Donaldson for rape too makes it very unclear. Had they only tried Evans, I'd be more inclined to believe his guilt.

    It also dosen't make him not a rapist if ya see what i mean.

    If you where drunk in a hotel room and i went in and performed sex acts on you (man on man) because you cant remeber anything would that make it acceptable ??????
    I could say you consented because you where to drunk to not consent...if you see what i mean
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by purpleram on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 4:53 pm

    All this talk of him coming into contact with women's teams as a reason for stopping him carrying on with his job is nonsense. He will pose no threat to these women and I suspect the posters know that.

    He probably is an unsavoury individual, a sleeze bag more than likely, a misogynist certainly, a rapist? well the courts thought so.

    But if you agree that the law has taken it's course, you have to accept the verdict and the sentence. He has served his sentence in the eyes of the law and as such it's not for the mob to decide his fate post prison.

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by RRC on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 4:58 pm

    Mostyn wrote:
    RRC wrote:Fair enough, Mostyn.
    His lawyers are appealing the verdict and, if they get it overturned, he will be cleared.
    Has one application to appeal already been turned down because there is no new evidence?

    I've read a fair bit about this, including the stuff you posted, which I don't find convincing.

    The simple fact is that Evans had sex with a lass with whom he had no previous contact, who did not
    know him at all, and did not know that Evans was going to turn up later (after a text from his mate).
    She says she did not give her consent to Evans and I'm inclined to believe her, based on the facts.

    That last paragraph isn't strictly true. Not giving consent is very different to not remembering anything.

    It has to be informed consent, doesn't it - that she knew what she was doing.
    If she doesn't remember anything, it's hard to see how you could call it consent.

    The circumstance of his only turning up later after a text invitation from his mate and
    that he used the fire escape does not make his account (that she gave her consent
    knowingly and willingly) very convincing.

    The jury didn't believe him, so it's up to his lawyers either to provide evidence that the
    jury didn't hear or to show that the judge misdirected the jury. The jury's interpretation
    of what they heard and their verdict based on that won't be reviewed.

    I'm afraid that everything Evans and his supporters have done and said looks like attempts
    to vilify her - the victim - and paint him as squeaky clean, which he wouldn't be even if
    he got the verdict overturned.


    Last edited by RRC on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 5:02 pm; edited 2 times in total



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    FatGab7

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by FatGab7 on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 5:00 pm

    Were you in the public gallery at the time Mostyn? Are you privy to all of the evidence? I doubt it. Therefore your " if he wins his appeal, you'll be shocked to discover some of the smoke and mirrors tactics used by both prosecution and defence in a courtroom." comment is a bit strange.

    I've done jury service twice, on cases including rape, robbery, assault, and manslaughter, so I am well aware of what goes on in court.
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Mostyn on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 5:02 pm

    Hectors House wrote:
    Mostyn wrote:
    Hectors House wrote:Just out of interest Mostyn, if she was your daughter would you feel any different????

    The thing for me on reading the circumstances around what happened(and i know its paper talk) is they actively had a history of trying to find drunk woman. Why would one target drunk women other than thinking, if they where sober they probably wouldnt want to have sex with me.... thats what doesnt sit well with me.

    If Evans got drunk and then found out that a man had had sex with him (assuming he didnt think he was bisexual) would he feel like he had been raped if he couldnt remember  giving consent.

    If it was my daughter, my emotions would overrule any logic regardless of whether he was guilty or not, but if it was my daughter, the idea of her giving consent would perhaps sicken me anyway.

    I'd be very worried as to how my daughter was fishcake-faced, in a kebab house, without anyone to look after her, and in a self-inflicted vulnerable position.

    I suspect the 'actively pursuing drunk women' comment is a sneakily devised play on words by the prosecution using the fact that 9 out of 10 people on a night out drink, and a high percentage of people are actively on the pull, putting the two together, you concoct a powerful statement, which is only that.

    The fact that she doesn't remember anything, does not make Evans a rapist. The fact that they tried Donaldson for rape too makes it very unclear. Had they only tried Evans, I'd be more inclined to believe his guilt.

    It also dosen't make him not a rapist if ya see what i mean.

    If you where drunk in a hotel room and i went in and performed sex acts on you (man on man) because you cant remeber anything would that make it acceptable ??????
    I could say you consented because you where to drunk to not consent...if you see what i mean

    WOW, that's a very scary outlook there. In law, surely there has to be no doubt that the crime has been committed. If accusation is enough, and the law always presumed guilt over innocence, in something as life-ruining as being labelled a rapist and sex-offender, when there is so much 'reasonable' doubt, we're in serious trouble. I also believe that had Evans NOT been an international millionaire footballer with a reasonable profile, he may not have been found so easily guilty.
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    Loughborough Ram

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 5:45 pm

    Mostyn, you missed my point. He IS a convicted rapist, that is it.

    With most crimes the only people who know the ultimate truth are those involved, therefore we have a legal process which he has been through and been convicted. It now matters not what he says. Until he can prove otherwise he IS a convicted rapist. After all if we just took the word of all criminals the prisons would be empty. This isn't an obvious miscarriage of justice so we have to leave it for our justice system
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    Calif_Ramette

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by Calif_Ramette on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 6:21 pm

    He is a convicted rapist period. Until and if his conviction is over turned the facts remain he is a convicted rapist. I would not welcome him at Derby and honestly I think he should not be allowed to play football again. Sheff United have already had backlash for letting him train and good.

    chicken
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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by chicken on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 8:18 pm

    He is a CONVICTED rapist.

    Are we to ignore this?
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    FatGab7

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by FatGab7 on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 8:19 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:Mostyn, you missed my point. He IS a convicted rapist, that is it.  

    With most crimes the only people who know the ultimate truth are those involved, therefore we have a legal process which he has been through and been convicted. It now matters not what he says. Until he can prove otherwise he IS a convicted rapist. After all if we just took the word of all criminals the prisons would be empty. This isn't an obvious miscarriage of justice so we have to leave it for our justice system

    Calif_Ramette wrote:He is a convicted rapist period. Until  and if his conviction is over turned the facts remain he is a convicted rapist. I would not welcome him at Derby and honestly I think he should not be allowed to play football again. Sheff United have already had backlash for letting him train and good.

    You've both said exactly what i tried to say, but much more eloquently. I really am rather rubbish at this debating lark.

    Toast

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    Re: Ched Evans

    Post by chicken on Thu 13 Nov 2014, 8:26 pm

    Seems others aren't impressed with a convicted rapist playing for Sheff Utd

    Well said Jessica

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