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    Cheating - Lets just give up

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    Loughborough Ram

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    Cheating - Lets just give up

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 8:18 am

    Last night I witnessed Wayne Rooney commit one of the most blatant dives I have EVER seen, no contact at all despite Rooneys extremely poor attempt at leaving his leg to be kicked. It earned United a penalty from, in my opinion, the worst Premiersh*t referee Phil Dowd, and ended the cup game against Preston.

    Was he roundly criticised by all, was he f*ck? Phil Neville (the brother without the looks or the brain cell) said that he was trying to get out of the way,avoiding a certian broken leg. Oh well I thought, stupid, obvious United bias, usually talks sh*t so no real surprise there. Roy Hodgson will call it as it was, but no. Hodgson agreed with the village idiot. Of course he did, he's his England manager I thought, he's never going to criticise his 'star' man.

    This morning on Talksport Andy Gray would surely put us all straight having spent the evening casting his 'brilliant' analytical mind over it and replaying it a thousand times but no. Andy's opinion? That it is a grey area! The law says that there doesn't have to be contact, just intent, so by the letter of the law it was a penalty.

    Now I know that footballers are stupid and that clearly extends to ex footballers on many occassions but even they should be able to fathom that the word "intent" relates to the intent to injure not the intent to tackle.

    If there is wide acceptance of Rooneys blatant cheating then think that us old folk will have to just accept the majority rule and accept that the best cheats will probably win out not the best players.

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    Charingworth Ram

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    Re: Cheating - Lets just give up

    Post by Charingworth Ram on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 8:24 am

    Well there is wide acceptance of Chris Martins cheating so why not Rooney?

    Martin is a cheat !! ok some have suggested "hes our cheat" that view is hypocritical of course but its always happened and always will nothing anyone can do about that ?

    Its just sad, because if Martin was able to stay on his feet more he would add so much more to his game.



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    Loughborough Ram

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    Re: Cheating - Lets just give up

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 8:30 am

    Accepted by who Chaz, most people on here crticise Martin for cheating on a regular basis. I hated Malcolm Christie for the same reason when he was here.
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    MadAmster

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    Re: Cheating - Lets just give up

    Post by MadAmster on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 8:47 am

    Not seen the 'lights yet but online last night a lot of folk were on about another of the Untidy goals where, apparently, one of the Untidy players was in an offside position but, apparently, not interfering with play despite being directly in the keeper's line of sight. The goal was, according to the posters, incorrectly given.

    Anybody on here care to comment on that one?



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    Angus

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    Re: Cheating - Lets just give up

    Post by Angus on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 9:14 am

    MadAmster wrote:Not seen the 'lights yet but online last night a lot of folk were on about another of the Untidy goals where, apparently, one of the Untidy players was in an offside position but, apparently, not interfering with play despite being directly in the keeper's line of sight. The goal was, according to the posters, incorrectly given.

    Anybody on here care to comment on that one?

    The goal given Rooney wasn't in the line of vision but the keeper was affected by Rooney's presence in that he expected him to play the ball, for me Rooney was gaining an advantage and the goal shouldn't have stood, although I can see why the goal was given.

    For the penalty the keeper came flying out got nowhere near the ball. No contact but Rooney had to get out of the way, yes he dived but still a penalty in my opinion which he wouldn't have got without the dive, certain foul for me the challenge was reckless and it could be argued dangerous, contact or no contact still a foul.

    With Chris Martin, he get's fouled often without punishment, so any tactic he uses to square the ledger and more I have no problem with. The one thing I don't like is the pretending to be injured, I wish he would cut that out.
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    Cornish Ram

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    Re: Cheating - Lets just give up

    Post by Cornish Ram on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 9:58 am

    Here's the penalty - https://vine.co/tags/rooney

    Dive for me, no contact and he brings his right leg down to make it look like there was contact .

    He could have got out the way by just jumping over and carrying on his run? He knew if he went down, he would get a pen otherwise why do it?

    Here's the offise -
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    Cornish Ram

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    Re: Cheating - Lets just give up

    Post by Cornish Ram on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 10:06 am

    Different angle of the penalty - https://vine.co/v/Oxmxlzw7uiV
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    MadAmster

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    Re: Cheating - Lets just give up

    Post by MadAmster on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 10:14 am

    PNE Manager says no dive. Having now seen the video I think he went down to make sure the penalty was given. Very rash challenge from the keeper, two footed. The foul was for intent as there was no contact. He only got a yellow because Rooney was going away from the goal. However, the 2 footed nature of the challenge could easily have led to red.

    As for the "line of sight" goal. I agree with Angus, Rooney wasn't in the line of sight. However, being inside the 6 yard box and between the posts, the keeper will be in two minds as to whether or not to take account of Rooney or to ignore him. That is interfering with play. That goal should have been disallowed.



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    MadAmster

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    Re: Cheating - Lets just give up

    Post by MadAmster on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 10:34 am

    BTW - The Fellini goal should have been disallowed for his foul on the defender.

    I would hope that I would have:
    1. disallowed the Herrera goal
    2. ditto the Fellini goal
    3. given the penalty and a red card to the keeper

    Playing the game out with 10 men would probably have led to a Utd win but we can't be 100% sure of that.



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    CornwallRam

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    Re: Cheating - Lets just give up

    Post by CornwallRam on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 10:37 am

    Angus wrote:
    MadAmster wrote:Not seen the 'lights yet but online last night a lot of folk were on about another of the Untidy goals where, apparently, one of the Untidy players was in an offside position but, apparently, not interfering with play despite being directly in the keeper's line of sight. The goal was, according to the posters, incorrectly given.

    Anybody on here care to comment on that one?

    The goal given Rooney wasn't in the line of vision but the keeper was affected by Rooney's presence in that he expected him to play the ball, for me Rooney was gaining an advantage and the goal shouldn't have stood, although I can see why the goal was given.

    For the penalty the keeper came flying out got nowhere near the ball. No contact but Rooney had to get out of the way, yes he dived but still a penalty in my opinion which he wouldn't have got without the dive, certain foul for me the challenge was reckless and it could be argued dangerous, contact or no contact still a foul.

    With Chris Martin, he get's fouled often without punishment, so any tactic he uses to square the ledger and more I have no problem with. The one thing I don't like is the pretending to be injured, I wish he would cut that out.

    Agree with every word

    Goal was offside, Rooney had to avoid a very silly challenge and Chris Martin gets even more than he dishes out.
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    Loughborough Ram

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    Re: Cheating - Lets just give up

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 10:50 am

    I just don't get it. It didn't look rash to me, he just wasn't as quick as Rooney, and Amster no wonder refs get criticised if you think that was two footed. He made a genuine tackle and Rooney was too quick, anywhere else on the field and if the ref sees it the player gets booked for diving.

    Football as a contact sport is dead if we have people trying to justify decisions like this on technicalities.
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    Angus

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    Re: Cheating - Lets just give up

    Post by Angus on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 10:58 am

    Loughborough Ram wrote:I just don't get it. It didn't look rash to me, he just wasn't as quick as Rooney, and Amster no wonder refs get criticised if you think that was two footed. He made a genuine tackle and Rooney was too quick, anywhere else on the field and if the ref sees it the player gets booked for diving.

    Football as a contact sport is dead if we have people trying to justify decisions like this on technicalities.

    Good for Rooney there was no contact given the distance that keeper came flying in from. Nothing to stop the ref giving the pen and booking Rooney for diving, seen it done in local park football but the ref has to be sure and in that case it would have been difficult.
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    SawleyRam

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    Re: Cheating - Lets just give up

    Post by SawleyRam on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 11:00 am

    Charingworth Ram wrote:Well there is wide acceptance of Chris Martins cheating so why not Rooney?

    Martin is a cheat !! ok some have suggested "hes our cheat" that view is hypocritical of course but its always happened and always will nothing anyone can do about that ?

    Its just sad, because if Martin was able to stay on his feet more he would add so much more to his game.

    There is a difference between "diving" which is blatant cheating and being fouled and going down easily. Martin does the latter. Martin tries to make it more obvious he was fouled, sometimes to his own detriment as I would agree with your last sentence.
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    SawleyRam

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    Re: Cheating - Lets just give up

    Post by SawleyRam on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 11:10 am

    Can you blame the players for taking advantage though? The game gets faster as the players get fitter by using the latest technology available. The referees struggle to keep up with it all so the call for more technology within the match itself should be available to the ref. The call won't always be 100% correct but the regular cheats would be weeded out very quickly and appropriate action taken where there is non at all as we stand. Seems poor that goal line technology and shaving cream is all we have!
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    rjrules71

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    Re: Cheating - Lets just give up

    Post by rjrules71 on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 6:59 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:Last night I witnessed Wayne Rooney commit one of the most blatant dives I have EVER seen, no contact at all despite Rooneys extremely poor attempt at leaving his leg to be kicked. It earned United a penalty from, in my opinion, the worst Premiersh*t referee Phil Dowd, and ended the cup game against Preston.

    Was he roundly criticised by all, was he f*ck? Phil Neville (the brother without the looks or the brain cell) said that he was trying to get out of the way,avoiding a certian broken leg. Oh well I thought, stupid, obvious United bias, usually talks sh*t so no real surprise there. Roy Hodgson will call it as it was, but no. Hodgson agreed with the village idiot. Of course he did, he's his England manager I thought,  he's never going to criticise his 'star' man.

    This morning on Talksport Andy Gray would surely put us all straight having spent the evening casting his 'brilliant' analytical mind over it and replaying it a thousand times but no. Andy's opinion? That it is a grey area! The law says that there doesn't have to be contact, just intent, so by the letter of the law it was a penalty.

    Now I know that footballers are stupid and that clearly extends to ex footballers on many occassions but even they should be able to fathom that the word "intent" relates to the intent to injure not the intent to tackle.

    If there is wide acceptance of Rooneys blatant cheating then think that us old folk will have to just accept the majority rule and accept that the best cheats will probably win out not the best players.


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    New England Ram
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    Re: Cheating - Lets just give up

    Post by New England Ram on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 7:12 pm

    Not seen the penalty I had given up on the game by then.
    United are so ****ing horrible to watch.
    I actually used to enjoy watching them play in their pomp under Fergie ( despised as they were )always getting forward and exciting.
    This lot are awful...totally agree that for me the first United goal should have been disallowed...the goalie clearly thought Shrek was going to play the ball and set his body accordingly...by the time he realized he wasn't it was too late for him to react.
    As Cloughie said "if you ain't interfering what are you doing on the pitch "



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    Charingworth Ram

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    Re: Cheating - Lets just give up

    Post by Charingworth Ram on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 7:39 pm

    SawleyRam wrote:
    Charingworth Ram wrote:Well there is wide acceptance of Chris Martins cheating so why not Rooney?

    Martin is a cheat !! ok some have suggested "hes our cheat" that view is hypocritical of course but its always happened and always will nothing anyone can do about that ?

    Its just sad, because if Martin was able to stay on his feet more he would add so much more to his game.

    There is a difference between "diving" which is blatant cheating and being fouled and going down easily. Martin does the latter. Martin tries to make it more obvious he was fouled, sometimes to his own detriment as I would agree with your last sentence.

    There is no difference whatsoever !! cheating is cheating.

    Diving is a voluntary reaction therefore it is cheating. Bang head




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