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    New Depths

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    bramhallram

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    New Depths

    Post by bramhallram on Sun 19 Jul 2015, 10:22 pm

    Just back from holiday in time to see the embarrassing collapse of our national cricket team in the 2nd Test.

    I switched on the TV in time to see our genius captain throw his wicket away again, and what followed was pitiful batting from almost every player. The crazy run out of Ben Stokes perfectly summed up a pathetic, clueless batting performance.

    The Aussies bounced back from their defeat in the 1st Test. Does anyone think we can do the same ?

    .
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    Boris

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    Re: New Depths

    Post by Boris on Sun 19 Jul 2015, 10:52 pm

    bramhallram wrote:Just back from holiday in time to see the embarrassing collapse of our national cricket team in the 2nd Test.

    I switched on the TV in time to see our genius captain throw his wicket away again, and what followed was pitiful batting from almost every player. The crazy run out of Ben Stokes perfectly summed up a pathetic, clueless batting performance.

    The Aussies bounced back from their defeat in the 1st Test. Does anyone think we can do the same ?

    .

    Not sure...but Derbyshire had a good day celebration
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    RRC
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    Re: New Depths

    Post by RRC on Sun 19 Jul 2015, 11:07 pm

    The second innings was a shambles. That Broad top-scored with 25 tells all you need to know.
    Some of the performances in the first innings were no better - that started with 30-4 again.
    Keep picking a top 4 of Cook, Lyth, Ballance and Bell, after they've failed to score many more
    than 50-3 for ages, and the next three tests could be just as embarrassing.

    If England thought that a dead wicket would suit them and blunt the Aussie bowling they found
    out the hard way that the Aussie bowling is better than that and that our attack has no threat
    without sideways movement. Our bowlers took 10 wickets in two innings - how will they take
    20 wickets again if they get another wicket like Lords? Only Broad had much effect.

    Who else do we have? Maybe Compton and Bairstow would show a bit more grit and Finn would
    at least be a bit quicker than Anderson but I wouldn't bet the house on seeing much improvement.



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    valakari

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    Re: New Depths

    Post by valakari on Sun 19 Jul 2015, 11:58 pm

    RRC wrote:The second innings was a shambles. That Broad top-scored with 25 tells all you need to know.
    Some of the performances in the first innings were no better - that started with 30-4 again.
    Keep picking a top 4 of Cook, Lyth, Ballance and Bell, after they've failed to score many more
    than 50-3 for ages, and the next three tests could be just as embarrassing.

    If England thought that a dead wicket would suit them and blunt the Aussie bowling they found
    out the hard way that the Aussie bowling is better than that and that our attack has no threat
    without sideways movement. Our bowlers took 10 wickets in two innings - how will they take
    20 wickets again if they get another wicket like Lords? Only Broad had much effect.

    Who else do we have? Maybe Compton and Bairstow would show a bit more grit and Finn would
    at least be a bit quicker than Anderson but I wouldn't bet the house on seeing much improvement.
    I agree, Compton for Lyth, Barstow for Ballance, but also, Pieterson for Bell...that is what I would do...nothing like the selectors will do though!
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    Hectors House

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    Re: New Depths

    Post by Hectors House on Mon 20 Jul 2015, 7:40 am

    Lythe doesn't look test material and Bell has been woeful for a while. Ballance has looked well below level reqired as well. Trouble is i get the impression the powers that be are more interested in themselves than actually picking the best players to actually win a test match. The Aussies probably lost the first test by being over confident rather than us being so good. Hopefully i'm proved completely wrong on all that though Fingers crossed
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    Angus

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    Re: New Depths

    Post by Angus on Mon 20 Jul 2015, 8:44 am

    Hectors House wrote:Lythe doesn't look test material and Bell has been woeful for a while. Ballance has looked well below level reqired as well. Trouble is i get the impression the powers that be are more interested in themselves than actually picking the best players to actually win a test match. The Aussies probably lost the first test by being over confident rather than us being so good. Hopefully i'm proved completely wrong on all that though Fingers crossed

    Lyth had the weight of runs behind him in county cricket so deserved his chance, however nobody in county cricket bowls with the pace and fire of these Australians, especially Mitchell Johnson and the step up looks too much for him. Compton should take his place he and Cook would again be very boring but are the best bet to survive the new ball as a partnership, Ballance technically has developed big flaws he will have to be replaced as well, Bell might get one more chance at his home ground. We have some decent middle order players to come in in Bairstow, Taylor and Morgan but facing this Australia attack plus South Africa away is a big ask for any player coming in to succeed.

    Spin bowling looks another big problem, we might win another test on a slow seamer at Trent Bridge but the Aussies rightly are big favourites to hold the Ashes.
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    bramhallram

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    Re: New Depths

    Post by bramhallram on Mon 20 Jul 2015, 10:30 am

    Angus wrote:
    Hectors House wrote:Lythe doesn't look test material and Bell has been woeful for a while. Ballance has looked well below level reqired as well. Trouble is i get the impression the powers that be are more interested in themselves than actually picking the best players to actually win a test match. The Aussies probably lost the first test by being over confident rather than us being so good. Hopefully i'm proved completely wrong on all that though Fingers crossed

    Lyth had the weight of runs behind him in county cricket so deserved his chance, however nobody in county cricket bowls with the pace and fire of these Australians, especially Mitchell Johnson and the step up looks too much for him.  Compton should take his place he and Cook would again be very boring but are the best bet to survive the new ball as a partnership,Ballance technically has developed big flaws he will have to be replaced as well, Bell might get one more chance at his home ground. We have some decent middle order players to come in in Bairstow, Taylor and Morgan but facing this Australia attack plus South Africa away is a big ask for any player coming in to succeed.

    Spin bowling looks another big problem, we might win another test on a slow seamer at Trent Bridge but the Aussies rightly are big favourites to hold the Ashes.
    Angus, I always thought the main purpose of an opening partnership was to   see off the new ball, frustrate the bowling attack and set up the innings for the more attacking batsmen. It doesn't matter if it's a bit boring.

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    Barnstaple Ram

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    Re: New Depths

    Post by Barnstaple Ram on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 5:02 pm

    Just the one change in the squad for the third test

    Bairstow in for Ballance

    Lyth and Bell given another chance
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    Boris

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    Re: New Depths

    Post by Boris on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 5:36 pm

    Barnstaple Ram wrote:Just the one change in the squad for the third test

    Bairstow in for Ballance

    Lyth and Bell given another chance

    I don't think Lyth is the answer as opener..bring back KP. Bell must be in the last chance saloon...can't think of a suitable replacement off the top of my head....
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    Stockport Ram

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    Re: New Depths

    Post by Stockport Ram on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 5:47 pm

    Boris wrote:
    Barnstaple Ram wrote:Just the one change in the squad for the third test

    Bairstow in for Ballance

    Lyth and Bell given another chance

    I don't think Lyth is the answer as opener..bring back KP. Bell must be in the last chance saloon...can't think of a suitable replacement off the top of my head....


    Whatever we think about Marmite Murray, his sheer never-say-die attitude would be handy in our cricket team.  How he almost single handedly beat the CESM, erm, sorry French, was a lesson to the England side.

    The worst thing about the defeat is that it appears to have allowed a previously quiet KP to crawl out from under a rock....
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    wilmortonRAM

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    Re: New Depths

    Post by wilmortonRAM on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 7:18 pm

    Cringeworthy allowing Lyth another shot. That 1st innings dismissal was so so poor.
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    ShardlowSheep

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    Re: New Depths

    Post by ShardlowSheep on Tue 21 Jul 2015, 7:36 pm

    I reckon it is a case of one change at a time. If Lyth or Bell fail again in the next test and we lose one of then will be for the chop.
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    bramhallram

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    Re: New Depths

    Post by bramhallram on Wed 22 Jul 2015, 9:59 am

    ShardlowSheep wrote:I reckon it is a case of one change at a time. If Lyth or Bell fail again in the next test and we lose one of then will be for the chop.

    Bell is a very frustrating player. The talent is there but he seems to lack the mental toughness to dig in and see off the bowling when the short stuff starts coming his way.

    He's played over 100 tests for England and someone with that much experience should be delivering big scores regularly. If he fails at Edgbaston it's time for him to be dropped and give someone else a chance.

    .
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    Stockport Ram

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    Re: New Depths

    Post by Stockport Ram on Wed 22 Jul 2015, 8:24 pm

    bramhallram wrote:
    ShardlowSheep wrote:I reckon it is a case of one change at a time. If Lyth or Bell fail again in the next test and we lose one of then will be for the chop.

    Bell is a very frustrating player. The talent is there but he seems to lack the mental toughness to dig in and see off the bowling when the short stuff starts coming his way.

    He's played over 100 tests for England and someone with that much experience should be delivering big scores regularly. If he fails at Edgbaston it's time for him to be dropped and give someone else a chance.

    .

    Totally agree. Drop Bell and get another Yorkshireman in.


    Gives the Bears a chance in the Championship !! Wink
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    Angus

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    Re: New Depths

    Post by Angus on Thu 23 Jul 2015, 8:14 am

    Stockport Ram wrote:
    Boris wrote:
    Barnstaple Ram wrote:Just the one change in the squad for the third test

    Bairstow in for Ballance

    Lyth and Bell given another chance

    I don't think Lyth is the answer as opener..bring back KP. Bell must be in the last chance saloon...can't think of a suitable replacement off the top of my head....


    Whatever we think about Marmite Murray, his sheer never-say-die attitude would be handy in our cricket team.  How he almost single handedly beat the CESM, erm, sorry French, was a lesson to the England side.

    The worst thing about the defeat is that it appears to have allowed a previously quiet KP to crawl out from under a rock....

    Playing Tennis though doesn't really compare to facing Johnson or Starc bowling at 90 mph plus. I don't doubt the courage or determination of the England batsmen, more whether a couple are technically or mentally strong enough to get the runs we need facing such extreme pace and hostility.
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    MadAmster

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    Re: New Depths

    Post by MadAmster on Thu 23 Jul 2015, 9:01 am

    A tennis ball might be softer than a cricket ball but you get opponents like Karlovic who serve at >130 mph blasting it at you, it can still do damage if it hits you.
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    Angus

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    Re: New Depths

    Post by Angus on Thu 23 Jul 2015, 9:24 am

    MadAmster wrote:A tennis ball might be softer than a cricket ball but you get opponents like Karlovic who serve at >130 mph blasting it at you, it can still do damage if it hits you.

    Maybe but the Sporting prowess needed to play top level cricket far exceeds Tennis in my opinion. That ball delivered at 90mph could be aimed at the head, ribs, it could swing either way in the air, or of the seam. The skill level is just so incredibly high, Tennis just doesn't come close, they even need two attempts at serve and need breaks every few minutes.
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    Boris

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    Re: New Depths

    Post by Boris on Thu 23 Jul 2015, 10:08 am

    Angus wrote:
    MadAmster wrote:A tennis ball might be softer than a cricket ball but you get opponents like Karlovic who serve at >130 mph blasting it at you, it can still do damage if it hits you.

    Maybe but the Sporting prowess needed to play top level cricket far exceeds Tennis in my opinion. That ball delivered at 90mph could be aimed at the head, ribs, it could swing either way in the air, or of the seam. The skill level is just so incredibly high, Tennis just doesn't come close, they even need two attempts at serve and need breaks every few minutes.

    Totally disagree Angus, you have to have a much wider skill level and fitness level to play a top game of tennis than cricket.
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    Angus

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    Re: New Depths

    Post by Angus on Thu 23 Jul 2015, 10:23 am

    Boris wrote:
    Angus wrote:
    MadAmster wrote:A tennis ball might be softer than a cricket ball but you get opponents like Karlovic who serve at >130 mph blasting it at you, it can still do damage if it hits you.

    Maybe but the Sporting prowess needed to play top level cricket far exceeds Tennis in my opinion. That ball delivered at 90mph could be aimed at the head, ribs, it could swing either way in the air, or of the seam. The skill level is just so incredibly high, Tennis just doesn't come close, they even need two attempts at serve and need breaks every few minutes.

    Totally disagree Angus, you have to have a much wider skill level and fitness level to play a top game of tennis than cricket.

    Possibly fitness although top cricket players are super fit but skill I can't have to reach the top at Cricket is a much greater achievement, in terms of sport right at the top end and has so many more dimensions and variety than tennis.
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    Boris

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    Re: New Depths

    Post by Boris on Thu 23 Jul 2015, 10:29 am

    Angus wrote:
    Boris wrote:
    Angus wrote:
    MadAmster wrote:A tennis ball might be softer than a cricket ball but you get opponents like Karlovic who serve at >130 mph blasting it at you, it can still do damage if it hits you.

    Maybe but the Sporting prowess needed to play top level cricket far exceeds Tennis in my opinion. That ball delivered at 90mph could be aimed at the head, ribs, it could swing either way in the air, or of the seam. The skill level is just so incredibly high, Tennis just doesn't come close, they even need two attempts at serve and need breaks every few minutes.

    Totally disagree Angus, you have to have a much wider skill level and fitness level to play a top game of tennis than cricket.

    Possibly fitness although top cricket players are super fit but skill I can't have to reach the top at Cricket is a much greater achievement, in terms of sport right at the top end and has so many more dimensions and variety than tennis.

    Nah Agree to disagree

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