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    West Ham, the nations team

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    Stockport Ram

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    Re: West Ham, the nations team

    Post by Stockport Ram on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 6:39 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:To only highlight Huth and Morgan as fouling at corners is as ludicrous as it is misleading. As a non biased comment, nobody is worse than our very own Jake Buxton at this anti football, accepted crime, but if you give one you have to give all, anything else is bound to be viewed as biased.

    The Vardy sending off was ridiculous. In the first half West Ham commited foul after foul seemingly without sanction only for Vardy to be booked for a player falling over him. Thiery Henry was totally disingenuous over the second booking. Every player worth his salt is told to get between the ball and the man which in my opinion was exactly Vardy's intention. I'm sick and tired of pundits pouring over incidents like this week after week, trying to find the merest of brushes in order to justify the players right to throw himself to the ground. On this occassion there was clear contact which resulted in him falling over, so regardless of whether or not you feel Vardy instigated it, it could not possibly be construed as a dive.

    We can at least agree that the Leicester penalty was not a penalty, but hopefully this will just emphasise that this ref cannot cope at this level.


    I think we agree about quite a lot. Vardy's first booking wasn't a booking. West Ham's penalty wasn't, Leicester's penalty wasn't. That's three out of four or five major incidents on which we agree.


    I'd be interested to hear Ammy's thoughts on the game.
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    LeedsRam

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    Re: West Ham, the nations team

    Post by LeedsRam on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 9:23 pm

    Got my pay slip last week.

    In the deductions column, under tax, NI and Pension it now says 'West Ham'.
    I suppose it is in line with the new transparency shown towards taxation.
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    casinoram

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    Re: West Ham, the nations team

    Post by casinoram on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 9:47 pm

    He was shockingly inconsistent to say the least. I'm in agreement with Loughborough... either he received a rather fat brown envelope through the post, decided HE was bigger than the game or he was out of his depth. For him to give the Penalty to West Ham--to be consistent he should be giving 12-15 penalties a game minimum. Every free kick, corner or cross into the box sees more contact and physical abuse than Morgans "Push"
    The Leicester penalty !!!!! Geez...... I think by the look on Andy Carrolls face summed it up... utter "what the F*(K"
    Shocking performance!!
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    MadAmster

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    Re: West Ham, the nations team

    Post by MadAmster on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 6:37 am

    Forgetting what players either do, or do not get away with, but based purely and simply on the Laws of the game.............

    Morgan had been warned more than once yet did it again. He can have no complaints about the penalty being given and neither can Leicester.

    Carroll didn't engage his one brain cell for the Leicester penalty. No attempt to play the ball. Simply went through the man with the ball, even with Carroll's long legs, not in a place where he could play it. Ref was right.

    When Huth was thrown to the floor I said straight away, penalty, with the afterthought of...... and a knighthood for Ogbonna LOL I understand the ref's wish to be fair. He had warned the Fosse defence and felt duty bound to do the same with WHU. However, two wrongs do not make a right and it was a penalty and should have been given.

    Vardy? First yellow. The tackle itself was worth a free kick and no more than that. The WHU player appeared to want to stay upright and go after the ball. At that, Vardy raised his left foot off the floor and took the player's trailing leg. Deliberate foul play and a yellow. Second yellow. He played the ball slightly left, moved to his right, wrapped his own legs in/round/through those of the defender and the only thought in his mind was to get a penalty he didn't deserve. As someone else said above, cheating. In ref speak it's called unsportsmanlike behaviour and is a yellow card offence.

    The ref is guilty of one thing. Inconsistency. He had a very poor game IMO and this was not PL level refereeing.... or, at least, not the standard it should be in the PL. I think we should all write to that infant chappie at FIFA and ask him to clean up the game by stamping out all the cheaty things...... not that it will help :(



    Oh David Nugent, Oh David Nugent, we found him in Preston, we found him in Preston, we found him in Preston at the side of the road in a Volkswagen beetle............
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    rayebbram1

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    Re: West Ham, the nations team

    Post by rayebbram1 on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 9:00 am

    MadAmster wrote:Forgetting what players either do, or do not get away with, but based purely and simply on the Laws of the game.............

    Morgan had been warned more than once yet did it again. He can have no complaints about the penalty being given and neither can Leicester.

    Carroll didn't engage his one brain cell for the Leicester penalty. No attempt to play the ball. Simply went through the man with the ball, even with Carroll's long legs, not in a place where he could play it. Ref was right.

    When Huth was thrown to the floor I said straight away, penalty, with the afterthought of...... and a knighthood for Ogbonna LOL  I understand the ref's wish to be fair. He had warned the Fosse defence and felt duty bound to do the same with WHU. However, two wrongs do not make a right and it was a penalty and should have been given.

    Vardy? First yellow. The tackle itself was worth a free kick and no more than that. The WHU player appeared to want to stay upright and go after the ball. At that, Vardy raised his left foot off the floor and took the player's trailing leg. Deliberate foul play and a yellow. Second yellow. He played the ball slightly left, moved to his right, wrapped his own legs in/round/through those of the defender and the only thought in his mind was to get a penalty he didn't deserve. As someone else said above, cheating. In ref speak it's called unsportsmanlike behaviour and is a yellow card offence.

    The ref is guilty of one thing. Inconsistency. He had a very poor game IMO and this was not PL level refereeing.... or, at least, not the standard it should be in the PL. I think we should all write to that infant chappie at FIFA and ask him to clean up the game by stamping out all the cheaty things...... not that it will help :(

    Whilst I can understand the points you make in your summary, there is 1 question I would like to ask. When did the rules of association football change?

    If you grab someone by the neck or pull their shirt etc. it is a foul, anywhere on the pitch including the penalty box. Show me where the rules state you can have a warning first.

    Secondly, I am sure there is no rule against a forward putting his legs in the 'wrong place' as to encourage contact - I presume the yellow card wasn't for simulation - surely the defender must take some evasive action to avoid contact especially when the forward is in front of him. I realise the rule 'ungentlemanly conduct' could be used, but that would be to aviod the issue.
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    MadAmster

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    Re: West Ham, the nations team

    Post by MadAmster on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 11:23 am

    rayebbram1 wrote:
    1. Whilst I can understand the points you make in your summary, there is 1 question I would like to ask. When did the rules of association football change?

    2. If you grab someone by the neck or pull their shirt etc. it is a foul, anywhere on the pitch including the penalty box. Show me where the rules state you can have a warning first.

    3. Secondly, I am sure there is no rule against a forward putting his legs in the 'wrong place' as to encourage contact - I presume the yellow card wasn't for simulation - surely the defender must take some evasive action to avoid contact especially when the forward is in front of him. I realise the rule 'ungentlemanly conduct' could be used, but that would be to aviod the issue.

    You raise the reason why fans can't follow the game these days, refs do strange and weird things. The answers to your comments are:

    1. The Laws of football don't change very often but every season referees are given new interpretations to existing Laws.

    2. Can't show you as it isn't there. Not as a Law nor as an interpretation. The refs only have themselves to blame as they are the ones who have allowed defenders to get away with it for so long. They also seem to be afraid to give umpteen penalties in a game........

    3. What Vardy did was wrong on more than one level. In the first instance it is, as I wrote, cheating aka unsporting behaviour. Secondly, the contact was initiated by Vardy and not by the defender who was (should have been?) going for the ball. Thirdly, having played the ball left and a couple of yards in front of him, Vardy was no longer in control of the ball and his preventing the defender from getting to the ball constitutes obstruction.


    This is symptomatic of what is wrong with the game IMO. The Laws are there and should be adhered to. Instead players, managers and coaches are constantly looking at ways to bend them. Refs have a difficult job at the best of times and it is made even harder by these cheatin tw*ts.

    I am going to be writing to the new FIFA top man Infantino or whatever his name is and ask him to change the game back to what it used to be.

    a) cut out all the free style wrestling at corners, free kicks and throw ins that are being pumped into the box. Three weeks of 10 penalties and numerous cards a game should stamp that out.

    b) stop the stupid actions of players who kick the ball into touch and then claim that the throw/corner should be for them when they KNOW it isn't.

    c) stop all the standing in front of the ball to prevent a quick free kick being taken and then slowly moving back at a snail's pace only to be replaced at the ball by a teammate. They should (according to the Laws) retreat IMMEDIATELY. Failure to do so is a yellow card offence.

    d) stop the feigning of injury to get an advantage / stop the opposition getting an advantage / get a breather to stop the constant onslaught by the opposition. Copy the game of Rugby and allow the trainer onto the park to administer to the injured player. Keep the game flowing.

    e) Cut out the constant beleaguering of refs by players who disagree with a decision. The ref isn't going to change his mind. Accept the decision or have the free kick awarded 10 yards further up the pitch as happens in Rugby. If that 10 yards takes the kick into the penalty area it becomes a penalty. I mean, they all say it's the passion coming out, the emotion.......... Rugby players are every bit as emotional and passionate but they also have the PROFESSIONALISM not to submit to the mardies.

    f) Stop keepers moving forwards before a penalty kick has been taken. It narrows the angle hugely.

    g) The penalty taker has to take a smooth run up, no more stuttering in the run up.

    h) Encroachment at a penalty. Retake it. The Law is there, it just isn't enforced.

    I am sure you all have your own pet hates that shoud be taken out of the game. Let me know and I will add them to my list for Infantino. If I get a reaction from him I will let you know.



    Oh David Nugent, Oh David Nugent, we found him in Preston, we found him in Preston, we found him in Preston at the side of the road in a Volkswagen beetle............
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    derbygee

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    Re: West Ham, the nations team

    Post by derbygee on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 12:23 pm

    I really really HATE it when a player doesn't touch the ball, shepherds it out but obstructs an opponent to prevent him reaching it. How can he have control or possession if he never touches the fishcaking thing?
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    derbygee

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    Re: West Ham, the nations team

    Post by derbygee on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 12:30 pm

    Oh and I forgot the ref for WHU earned his backhander spectacularly.

    I suspect the merry whistleblowers want to decide who wins the league and not the players.
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    MadAmster

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    Re: West Ham, the nations team

    Post by MadAmster on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 12:43 pm

    derbygee wrote:I really really HATE it when a player doesn't touch the ball, shepherds it out but obstructs an opponent to prevent him reaching it. How can he have control or possession if he never touches the fishcaking thing?

    .... when the ball is within playing distance, the player is deemed to be in control of the ball and may shield it. All too ofthen the ball is 2 yards or more away and they still do it. 2 yards away you cannot play the ball..............



    Oh David Nugent, Oh David Nugent, we found him in Preston, we found him in Preston, we found him in Preston at the side of the road in a Volkswagen beetle............
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    Loughborough Ram

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    Re: West Ham, the nations team

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 1:28 pm

    If Vardy dived, then that should be the bar set. I don't want to be ever shown a man throwing himself to the floor only to be told that after 5 different camera angles there was a brush on his shirt so he was entitled to go down, no players dragging their back leg so that the sliding keeper cannot avoid hitting it, no players throwing their arms in the air as they stop in front of the defender to make him run into the back of him. These all, from this point forward should bring yellow cards.

    Now for the reality. All of the above mentioned incidents will happen countless times in every game in every division, and the refs will (as always) take the easy option, keep the yellow cards in their pockets and invariably give the free kick to the 'cheat'.

    Jonathan Moss was hoisted by his own petard in that if he claimed to be right to the letter of the law for giving West Ham their penalty, it therefore made him wrong on every other free kick and corner into either box. He can't have it both ways. He was a man so far out of his depth it was embarrassing.
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    Barnstaple Ram

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    Re: West Ham, the nations team

    Post by Barnstaple Ram on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 1:53 pm

    The West Ham player said he was clearly held back by Morgan. So why did he fall forward if he wasn't himself trying to bring the refs attention to the contact?
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    MadAmster

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    Re: West Ham, the nations team

    Post by MadAmster on Mon 18 Apr 2016, 2:51 pm

    His own motion and momentum were forwards, Morgan tried to pull hum back, failed and momentum did its thing.



    Oh David Nugent, Oh David Nugent, we found him in Preston, we found him in Preston, we found him in Preston at the side of the road in a Volkswagen beetle............

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