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    Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

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    Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by RRC on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 9:47 pm

    Derby made three changes from the side that struggled to draw with Bristol City – De Sart (Johnson),
    Butterfield (Bryson) and Anya (Camara, out for personal reasons). Cardiff were unchanged from the
    team that won at Leeds.
    Starting XI
    Carson – Baird, Keogh, Pearce, Olsson – Hughes, De Sart, Butterfield – Ince, Bent, Anya
    Subs
    Mitchell, Christie, Shackell, Russell, Johnson, Blackman, Nugent

    First half
    Unlike recent games, Derby started as if they meant it. With six minutes gone, a miskicked Cardiff
    clearance gifted Derby a corner, which Ince took, Pearce headed, the keeper parried, and De Sart
    scored his first goal for Derby. Cardiff responded at once and won a corner at the other end. On 17
    minutes a good Derby attack from Hughes and Ince led to Bent poaching a goal, his 6th in 6 games.



    Carson had to make a couple of good saves as Cardiff tried to get a foothold in the game. At the
    other end Anya tormented the visitors’ defence. A great ball from De Sart split the defence and
    Ince beat the tacklers but the keeper made a fine save. Hughes also had a chance but his shot
    was deflected. After 35 minutes, the Rams decided to take a breather, kept losing the ball carelessly,
    and Cardiff took advantage. A looping shot by Kadeem Harris on 41 minutes beat Carson to reduce
    Derby’s lead.
    HT Derby 2-1

    Second half
    Straight after the start, Cardiff levelled when Kadeem Harris scored again after the Derby defence
    failed to deal with a long throw into the box. The visitors were sharper and quicker, winning more of
    the ball as Derby’s midfield backed off and gave them more room to play, making it easy for them.
    On 57 minutes Craig Noone scored a good goal, giving Carson no chance, and Cardiff took the lead.
    Moments later, a timely tackle by De Sart stopped another dangerous attack. Cardiff broke fast after
    a Derby corner but wasted their chance, and Butterfield narrowly missed his chance at the other end.
    Nugent and Russell replaced Hughes and Baird in a 4-2-4 formation on 66 minutes.



    Another long throw led to another free header for Cardiff but it wasn’t good enough to beat Carson.
    A fine corner by Butterfield gave Russell the chance of a headed goal but it was cleared off the line.
    On 74 minutes, Olsson won the ball and provided a superb cross which Bent headed powerfully to bring
    Derby level. Derby pressed more towards the end but didn’t create good chances. In the 90th minute,
    Pearce conceded a penalty and Cardiff took the lead again. Blackman replaced Butterfield in extra time.
    Derby 3-4 Cardiff

    After the poor start to the season, Derby couldn’t afford to waste chances to make ground on our
    rivals by dropping points in games against weaker teams. We still have to play six teams that are above
    us in the table. This loss saw Derby drop from 8th to 11th place and 8 points off the playoffs.



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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by purpleram on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 10:17 pm

    On a more positive note, for the first time ever, I chose to miss the match for absolutely no reason, and had a Chateaubriand steak with the wife, bloody lovely.
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 10:31 pm

    I enjoyed a football free evening with the wife also. Boy did I make the right decision.
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by Barnstaple Ram on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 10:33 pm

    I actually spent me evening at hospital so haven't seen or heard anything
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by SawleyRam on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 11:50 pm

    At 2-0 up Cardiff had no answer to us and after 30 minutes we started showboating with ole! football. Most of the team was thinking the nights work was complete and when Cardiff upped their performance we were not in the right mindset to retaliate.

    This over-confidence by a bunch of bang average players was then complimented by a lack of moral fibre when Cardiff got the physical side of their game going.

    The fact that this was also the worse performance by the man in black that has been seen in Derby's own backyard for many a season was incidental to the ineptness that the Rams produced, only De Sart and perhaps Bent came away from that match with any mediocum of satisfaction.

    I now think that all end of season arguments as to where we finish in the table have been settled after the last two games.
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by chicken on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 11:56 pm

    purpleram wrote:On a more positive note, for the first time ever, I chose to miss the match for absolutely no reason, and had a Chateaubriand steak with the wife, bloody lovely.

    I'm a vegetarian and I wished I'd stayed in and eaten steak instead of watching that overpaid bunch of losers and their clueless manager.
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 7:08 am

    dunnno what happened there...

    Maybe the players who played in the home game v Leicester got some inkling from SM that, by being rested in the away game v Leicester, they were world beaters who only need to turn up to beat paltry Championship sides such as Bristol and Cardiff?

    Worryingly, this is the type of result that we got in the last end of season run in when SM's eye was turned by NCFC. Maybe the problem last time around wasn't that SM had gone astray; maybe the reality is that he's just not good enough to put out a good team when provided with a squad of very good players.

    I doubt that any of the Bristol or Cardiff players would have got into the Derby squad before the 2 games (with the possible exception of Abrahams). After the two games, I doubt that any of the Derby players would have got into a team based on the ratings of the 3 sides.

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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by CornwallRam on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 8:30 am

    The best bit of last night was Cardiff's chant of 'You're only here because you're single'.

    Don't worry though, Martin will be back for next season so we might manage 8th place. Reappointing McClaren was such a retrograde step.
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by Angus1 on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 8:40 am

    CornwallRam wrote:The best bit of last night was Cardiff's chant of 'You're only here because you're single'.

    Don't worry though, Martin will be back for next season so we might manage 8th place. Reappointing McClaren was such a retrograde step.

    Not sure what other options were available and in my opinion the problems through the club go much deeper than the manager. That said the thought we could do with Warnock to sort the club out is relevant, a real strong person we need it seems. Mac has 15 games to turn it round we probably need to win 10 of them, not likely but possible.
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by chicken on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 8:44 am

    CornwallRam wrote:The best bit of last night was Cardiff's chant of 'You're only here because you're single'.

    Don't worry though, Martin will be back for next season so we might manage 8th place. Reappointing McClaren was such a retrograde step.
    What's worrying is that SMc seems to think Martin is the answer.  

    We can't even rely on SMc to sort it through the summer. His player recruitment is shocking. Just ask Newcastle. 

    I didn't want him back.  I don't want him at Derby.
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by purpleram on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 9:02 am

    We don't always agree Chicken but I think we (amongst others) have been consistent on Mac. Vociferously against the re-appointment but had to put up with it, pleasantly surprised by the good run but still sceptical, now angry by the decision to give Judas his job back.
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by Angus1 on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 9:05 am

    chicken wrote:
    CornwallRam wrote:The best bit of last night was Cardiff's chant of 'You're only here because you're single'.

    Don't worry though, Martin will be back for next season so we might manage 8th place. Reappointing McClaren was such a retrograde step.
    What's worrying is that SMc seems to think Martin is the answer.  

    We can't even rely on SMc to sort it through the summer. His player recruitment is shocking. Just ask Newcastle. 

    I didn't want him back.  I don't want him at Derby.

    He claims not to have had much impact on recruitment at Newcastle, as regards Derby the recruitment since the hands on days of Clough has been terrible, that goes way beyond just Mac, other than some decent loans in his first spell. My theory is it doesn't work when we play the big club, big fees wages etc, history says that. It doesn't fit, we perhaps need to find a modern day Jim Smith for a more realistic strategy, FFP may force that if we fail this year.
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by chicken on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 9:28 am

    He would claim he didn't have a hand in spending £80m at Newcastle. He was on the Board as well as being manager, of course he didn't have a say in it. Rolling Eyes

    It didn't work last time, why are we persisting with him this time?
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by Angus1 on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 10:24 am

    chicken wrote:He would claim he didn't have a hand in spending £80m at Newcastle. He was on the Board as well as being manager, of course he didn't have a say in it. Rolling Eyes

    It didn't work last time, why are we persisting with him this time?

    He may have had a say but what he wanted wasn't acted upon. He wanted some experienced players but wasn't allowed to sigh players over a certain age.

    The club was in a bad position when he came back, at the time it is hard to think of a better option. He raised expectation again on a good run but with the lack of balance in the squad it was hard to see that as sustainable.

    Surely he will be given to the end of the season 15 games still to go, whether he is strong enough to clear the deadwood that will surely be needed this summer is open to debate. I would tend to look a bit higher though for the real problem.The Rugby man should have gone years ago.
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by chicken on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 10:51 am

    HyHopefully he will clear the deadwood, that's if anyone wants them.
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by bramhallram on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 11:19 am

    purpleram wrote:On a more positive note, for the first time ever, I chose to miss the match for absolutely no reason, and had a Chateaubriand steak with the wife, bloody lovely.

    ...and how was the steak ??

    .
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by purpleram on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 1:44 pm

    bramhallram wrote:
    purpleram wrote:On a more positive note, for the first time ever, I chose to miss the match for absolutely no reason, and had a Chateaubriand steak with the wife, bloody lovely.

    ...and how was the steak ??

    .

    It was great mate, on offer at Morrisons £15 and plenty for 2. Thought I'd over cooked it but so tender and melt in the mouth so medium was perfect rather than medium rare I normally have.
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by Stockport Ram on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 5:49 pm

    Some great posts on here, and a number contain home truths.

    What strikes me most is the team's character, both individually and collectively. Since Nigel was removed, it has only gone one way. March 22nd 2014 was one glorious blip where the stars aligned, but in truth although SM had the sense not to over recruit that season, the warning signs were there before Wembley.

    I would say that on the whole we have added more talented players than we had in September 2013, (there are exceptions of course, *coughs Blackman coughs*), but I'm not convinced that we have added any real leaders of men. Regardless of my opinion on Keogh, and he was pretty much forced on NC with the Shackell/Davies fiasco resulting in Shackell leaving, Richard has character in spades.  Unfortunately, he's just not very good.

    You can mould a team around limited players who have character in spades and are willing to learn (Howard, Moore, Oakley), but there "ain't no way" you create a winning team around mentally flaky players who often think they know better - I won't mention them, but I think we all can name half a dozen in our current squad.

    Call NC's tactical nous limited, and his recruitment hit and miss if you want, I know many will, but what he did was bring in the right sort of people.
     What we have now is a reflection of the managers since - and its going nowhere.
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by valakari on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 7:31 pm

    im sorry to disagree...but Keogh stands out head and shoulders...he's the one who starts most of our attacks with his forays forward and puts the team on the front foot.
    He also is the one putting inmost of the blocks on shots and is also the one covering the other 3 defenders when they are out of position (frequently) or have been beaten.
    Keogh is a must, could do with help.
    Under McClaren, and with Martin,Thorne and Forsyth back in the team...we will be much stronger and be able to play good attacking football again.
    I do think however, our panic buys do need clearing out, along with some others....
    Carson
    New RB Keogh Shackell Forsyth
    Thorne Hughes Bryson
    Ince Martin New LW
    Also keep as bench players:Mitchell, Lowe, Pearce, Anya and Nugent....the other 14 can go for me...
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by Jackal on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 7:40 pm

    Clough signed at lot of players who were either club captains or players of the year at their former clubs.  Some are still with us. To now be at a stage where we seem to lack leadership or ideas at times seems ridiculous (or it would be if it weren't Derby).
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by Angus1 on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 8:07 am

    valakari wrote:im sorry to disagree...but Keogh stands out head and shoulders...he's the one who starts most of our attacks with his forays forward and puts the team on the front foot.
    He also is the one putting inmost of the blocks on shots and is also the one covering the other 3 defenders when they are out of position (frequently) or have been beaten.
    Keogh is a must, could do with help.
    Under McClaren, and with Martin,Thorne and Forsyth back in the team...we will be much stronger and be able to play good attacking football again.
    I do think however, our panic buys do need clearing out, along with some others....
    Carson
    New RB Keogh Shackell Forsyth
    Thorne Hughes Bryson
    Ince Martin New LW
    Also keep as bench players:Mitchell, Lowe, Pearce, Anya and Nugent....the other 14 can go for me...

    I agree with a lot of what you say, Keogh's forays forward leave him out of position he needs Shackell next to him to keep him in position, his best form was under Clement staying in position and not as captain. Keogh and Shackell though is a good pair of centre-halfs at this level. Thorne and Martin fit would be great, I think we need better than Forsyth even pre the terrible injuries.

    Clearing the panic buys and deadwood will take great skill given their lavish contracts. It is crucial it get's done, so far that has been either neglected or not possible.
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by SawleyRam on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 10:21 am

    You all have decent points of view on the defensive weaknesses but the Keogh & Shackell partnership is dying a death due to lack of mobility on the part of Shackell.

    When the full backs go on their wing runs the CD on that side moves over to cover, and the other moves more central, so far so good, (see the tackles, interceptions that Keogh makes on the right.) When Shacks moves over to the left to cover he is not mobile enough to stop a nippy player from crossing the ball leaving himself ineffective in that period of play therefore Keogh is left trying to cover two opponents in the middle, that's where in a few cases their extra man in the box appears to be free and Keogh gets the blame whether it was his fault or not.

    Pearce is more mobile and this does not happen as often but Alex can be more rash than Shackell in his decision making.

    A proper conundrum, but all the blame cannot or should not be laid at Keogh's door when things go a little awry.
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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by Angus1 on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 10:53 am

    SawleyRam wrote:You all have decent points of view on the defensive weaknesses but the Keogh & Shackell partnership is dying a death due to lack of mobility on the part of Shackell.

    When the full backs go on their wing runs the CD on that side moves over to cover, and the other moves more central, so far so good, (see the tackles, interceptions that Keogh makes on the right.) When Shacks moves over to the left to cover he is not mobile enough to stop a nippy player from crossing the ball leaving himself ineffective in that period of play therefore Keogh is left trying to cover two opponents in the middle, that's where in a few cases their extra man in the box appears to be free and Keogh gets the blame whether it was his fault or not.

    Pearce is more mobile and this does not happen as often but Alex can be more rash than Shackell in his decision making.

    A proper conundrum, but all the blame cannot or should not be laid at Keogh's door when things go a little awry.

    That is the problem of having full-backs who don't know the right time to go forward or stay at home, ideally the centre-half shouldn't need to go outside the line of the 18 yard box. Shackell is a better centre-half than Pearce or Keogh, better technically, positionally and as an organiser.

    Mac made an error not disbanding the Pearce/Keogh partnership while he was ahead, that bit him on the backside this week.

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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by MadAmster on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 12:13 pm

    Angus, long time no read. Out of the box thinking there. Who'd have thought of having the full backs concentrate on their defensive duties and look at the odd attack as an added bonus?

    Not SM it would seem. We will have to make do with what we currently have it seems. Promotion isn't a mathematical impossibility but it is a huge improbability. I would suggest using the rest of the season to bed other systems and squad/Academy players in.



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    Re: Derby 3-4 Cardiff reports and comments

    Post by valakari on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 2:13 pm

    We miss Andre Wisdom....on one side ,...and Craig Forsyth on the other....

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