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    Strangely repetetive.

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    Loughborough Ram

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    Strangely repetetive.

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Tue 16 May 2017, 5:49 pm

    March/April :- "This squad needs some quality additions. I can't wait to get started in the summer"

    May :- "We are trying to tie a couple of deals up". "We may look at loans". "No, we have had no bids for any of our players".

    Now I think that the intentions of Rowett were entirely honest, and it may well be that come September the squad has been transformed, however it just seems like we have been here before, many, many times.
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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by New England Ram on Tue 16 May 2017, 8:46 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:March/April :- "This squad needs some quality additions. I can't wait to get started in the summer"

    May :- "We are trying to tie a couple of deals up". "We may look at loans". "No, we have had no bids for any of our players".

    Now I think that the intentions of Rowett were entirely honest, and it may well be that come September the squad has been transformed, however it just seems like we have been here before, many, many times.

    Sounds like Nigel



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    Mitten State Ram

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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by Mitten State Ram on Wed 17 May 2017, 2:48 am

    Who in their right minds would bid for these donkeys? Apart from Derby, obviously.



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    Stockport Ram

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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by Stockport Ram on Wed 17 May 2017, 7:17 am

    New England Ram wrote:
    Loughborough Ram wrote:March/April :- "This squad needs some quality additions. I can't wait to get started in the summer"

    May :- "We are trying to tie a couple of deals up". "We may look at loans". "No, we have had no bids for any of our players".

    Now I think that the intentions of Rowett were entirely honest, and it may well be that come September the squad has been transformed, however it just seems like we have been here before, many, many times.

    Sounds like Nigel

    The "May" bit certainly does.  Not so sure about the March/April bit, (1) because he started in January, and (2) because he went about his squad changes in a quietly efficient and (enforced) patient manner.

    The longer he's been gone, the more folk realise what a throroughly good job he did. We're in the same mess as we were post-Jewell folks - its gonna take time....
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    purpleram

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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by purpleram on Wed 17 May 2017, 8:31 am

    I agree Nigel was undervalued by the club and a lot of fans, but we appeared to be in a malaise at the time and although I didn't support the sacking I understood some of the reasons why. It's proved to be a bad decision IMO.

    That said it's over egging it to say we are as bad a state as 'post-Jewell', we now have a better squad that even though they have failed time and time again, I'm still hopeful with 3-4 in and a similar number out will be a good team. We also have Mel and his money!!!
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    MadAmster

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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by MadAmster on Wed 17 May 2017, 8:50 am

    Always said Nigel did a great job under harsh conditions. When he was sacked, I grudgingly agreed with it as he appeared to have got himself into a siege mentality (or a rut) from which he couldn't extricate himself. It was probably the right move but we have gone backwards since.....



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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by New England Ram on Wed 17 May 2017, 10:51 am

    MadAmster wrote:Always said Nigel did a great job under harsh conditions. When he was sacked, I grudgingly agreed with it as he appeared to have got himself into a siege mentality (or a rut) from which he couldn't extricate himself. It was probably the right move but we have gone backwards since.....

    Spot on...he did a good job..but everything was becoming very stale.
    And that run to Wembley after his departure reignited the club and fan base taking everything up a level.
    We never took advantage of the foothold we created then and pushed on and the biggest failure since has been the willingness to move on the players that came so close to taking us up.

    But this is all repetitive but not in the way Loughie meant.



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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Wed 17 May 2017, 4:54 pm

    Some of NC's substitutions were poor and cost us points / games. His communication was also poor at time - again, with substitutions it often seemed like the players had no idea of the changes to positions / systems etc. His comments regarding Tomas Cywka were unecessary and unfair. Other than this, he put together a good team of cheap players who often played some very good football.
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    MadAmster

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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by MadAmster on Wed 17 May 2017, 7:54 pm

    KeoghKeogh wrote:Some of NC's substitutions were poor and cost us points / games. His communication was also poor at time - again, with substitutions it often seemed like the players had no idea of the changes to positions / systems etc. His comments regarding Tomas Cywka were unecessary and unfair. Other than this, he put together a good team of cheap players who often played some very good football.

    I have to admit that, to this day, I don't understand bringing on an extra defender when you are 2-1 down...............



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    Jackal

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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by Jackal on Wed 17 May 2017, 9:02 pm

    The most pertinent question regarding Clough Jr is how many Derby fans would actually want him back? I for one, wouldn't. I imagine quite a few would join me which says it all really.



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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by RRC on Thu 18 May 2017, 2:20 am

    Jackal wrote:The most pertinent question regarding Clough Jr is how many Derby fans would actually want him back? I for one, wouldn't. I imagine quite a few would join me which says it all really.

    I wouldn't. I found him depressing and disliked the way he never took responsibility
    when things went wrong or didn;t work, like his team selection or choice of formation.

    I also thought his signings got worse the more he spent (eg Sammon, Keogh). He was
    better at spotting bargains. If the club's recent big spending been a mix of good and
    bad, I think it could have been worse under Clough.



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    Loughborough Ram

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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Thu 18 May 2017, 8:01 am

    Keogh has been good value for £1m.

    Nigel never had the chance to prove what he could do with money to spend and is well in credit with his player recruitment.
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    Angus1

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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by Angus1 on Thu 18 May 2017, 8:25 am

    Loughborough Ram wrote:March/April :- "This squad needs some quality additions. I can't wait to get started in the summer"

    May :- "We are trying to tie a couple of deals up". "We may look at loans". "No, we have had no bids for any of our players".

    Now I think that the intentions of Rowett were entirely honest, and it may well be that come September the squad has been transformed, however it just seems like we have been here before, many, many times.

    It is very early, contracts run to 30th June so there will be plenty going on behind the scenes as players get as many options as they can. Not much will happen until July publically.
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    MadAmster

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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by MadAmster on Thu 18 May 2017, 10:01 am

    True Angus but weren't Bent and Baird the only 2 we had who expired in 2017? They met the clauses in their contracts so they triggered the extra year themselves.

    Ergo we have no expiring contracts this closed season.



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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by rob on Thu 18 May 2017, 12:24 pm

    Already talking up a Bent move - if I was him I would have taken up the option as well - security in case no-one is interested or he cant get the silly money derby have offered.

    Maybe if someone offers him a multi-year deal he will be off the books, gods knows we may even buck the trend and get a small fee for him (my bet he is still here once the window closes)
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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Thu 18 May 2017, 6:45 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:Keogh has been good value for £1m.

    Nigel never had the chance to prove what he could do with money to spend and is well in credit with his player recruitment.

    Keogh has certainly repaid the fee through the number of games that he has played.

    However, ignoring the play off howler at Wembley, he has also cost us a fair bit of league-position / play off / promotion money through his errors.

    Harsh I know - but also true IMHO
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    Loughborough Ram

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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Thu 18 May 2017, 7:10 pm

    Wembley aside, to blame Keogh for our failure to gain promotion is just crass.

    I think he has his limitations but there are plenty of other people at least equally responsible for our lack of recent success.

    Last week it was all Sam Rush's fault.
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    Stockport Ram

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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by Stockport Ram on Thu 18 May 2017, 7:55 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:Wembley aside, to blame Keogh for our failure to gain promotion is just crass.

    I think he has his limitations but there are plenty of other people at least equally responsible for our lack of recent success.

    Last week it was all Sam Rush's fault.

    There have been a number of factors which, combined, have meant that promotion post-Wembley has been nigh on an impossibility.

    The two which preceed Wembley and have gone on to plague us since are the aforementioned Rush and Keogh. Crass is your opinion Sir, and you are more than entitled to it. Mine is that we will never be promoted from this division whilst Keogh is our captain as long as I have a hole in my aris. I said so twelve months or more before Wembley, and nothing I have seen since has changed my mind.

    All Rush has done is add fuel to that fire. At least one of the two main factors can do no more damage.
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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by New England Ram on Thu 18 May 2017, 8:08 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:Wembley aside, to blame Keogh for our failure to gain promotion is just crass.

    I think he has his limitations but there are plenty of other people at least equally responsible for our lack of recent success.

    Last week it was all Sam Rush's fault.

    His mistake was costly and ill timed at Wembley but I will always maintain our midfield and forwards were equally to blame for their inability to break QPR and their predictability in playing into their hands.
    Along with the managers choice of Hughes and not Bryson...anyway enough I am sitting patiently waiting for our major signings... LOL roll



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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by purpleram on Thu 18 May 2017, 10:32 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:Wembley aside, to blame Keogh for our failure to gain promotion is just crass.

    I think he has his limitations but there are plenty of other people at least equally responsible for our lack of recent success.

    Last week it was all Sam Rush's fault.

    Even Wembley wasn't Keogh's fault alone, Buxton was at least as culpable.
    As for putting all of our failings at Keoghs door it's pathetic, yes he drops the odd tatta but we didn't get in the play offs because we scored hardly any goals, or is that his fault too?
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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by Barnstaple Ram on Thu 18 May 2017, 11:01 pm

    Stockport Ram wrote:
    Loughborough Ram wrote:Wembley aside, to blame Keogh for our failure to gain promotion is just crass.

    I think he has his limitations but there are plenty of other people at least equally responsible for our lack of recent success.

    Last week it was all Sam Rush's fault.

    There have been a number of factors which, combined, have meant that promotion post-Wembley has been nigh on an impossibility.

    The two which preceed Wembley and have gone on to plague us since are the aforementioned Rush and Keogh.  Crass is your opinion Sir, and you are more than entitled to it.  Mine is that we will never be promoted from this division whilst Keogh is our captain as long as I have a hole in my aris.  I said so twelve months or more before Wembley, and nothing I have seen since has changed my mind.

    All Rush has done is add fuel to that fire.  At least one of the two main factors can do no more damage.

    Maybe the blame should lie with the manager who signed Keogh in the first place and even made him captain!! Remind me who it was again Stocky Dunno LOL roll
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    Stockport Ram

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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by Stockport Ram on Fri 19 May 2017, 12:50 am

    Barnstaple Ram wrote:
    Stockport Ram wrote:
    Loughborough Ram wrote:Wembley aside, to blame Keogh for our failure to gain promotion is just crass.

    I think he has his limitations but there are plenty of other people at least equally responsible for our lack of recent success.

    Last week it was all Sam Rush's fault.

    There have been a number of factors which, combined, have meant that promotion post-Wembley has been nigh on an impossibility.

    The two which preceed Wembley and have gone on to plague us since are the aforementioned Rush and Keogh.  Crass is your opinion Sir, and you are more than entitled to it.  Mine is that we will never be promoted from this division whilst Keogh is our captain as long as I have a hole in my aris.  I said so twelve months or more before Wembley, and nothing I have seen since has changed my mind.

    All Rush has done is add fuel to that fire.  At least one of the two main factors can do no more damage.

    Maybe the blame should lie with the manager who signed Keogh in the first place and even made him captain!! Remind me who it was again Stocky Dunno  LOL roll

    Blimey, I've waited four years for someone to mention this Barney !

    Even Sir Brian made the odd mistake....after all, he went to both Leeds AND Nottingham - how MANY bigger mistakes can a man make?

    For Florist and Dirties, read Keogh and Sammon....otherwise, like Father like Son for me. Super Rams Thumbs up
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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Fri 19 May 2017, 10:33 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:Wembley aside, to blame Keogh for our failure to gain promotion is just crass.

    I think he has his limitations but there are plenty of other people at least equally responsible for our lack of recent success.

    Last week it was all Sam Rush's fault.

    I'll ignore Wembley as he wasn't the only one at fault for their goal.

    I'll also ignore the fact that he has been made captain - because that isn't down to him.

    It's harsh I know but Keogh has made countless errors that have cost us points.

    I agree that we have played worse players across the past few seasons- several in fact. But we haven't stuck with any other player who has made so many individual mistakes that have cost us points.

    I also accept that the fact that he plays as a CH increases the chance of his erros being costly.

    If I had the time I would run through games that we have lost or drawn over the past few seasons and note down who made what errors to cost us the games. If I'm wrong about Keogh I'd change my mind. From what I've seen as a season ticket holder leads me to think that Keogh would feature heavily in the 'who was at fault' list.
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    valakari

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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by valakari on Sat 20 May 2017, 2:00 am

    I didn't mind the witch hunts on very poor players like Connor Sammon...everyone new he was a poor player at this level....but really, Keogh, ...it is becoming a joke. There are many, many worse players at Derby...all of the other defenders to mention but a few...let alone the 18 poor left wingers we have...so please, if there is to be a witch hunt...leave him out of it...at least until we have got rid of at least 13 or 14 others..
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    Re: Strangely repetetive.

    Post by Stockport Ram on Sat 20 May 2017, 7:39 am

    valakari wrote:I didn't mind the witch hunts on very poor players like Connor Sammon...everyone new he was a poor player at this level....but really, Keogh, ...it is becoming a joke. There are many, many worse players at Derby...all of the other defenders to mention but a few...let alone the 18 poor left wingers we have...so please, if there is to be a witch hunt...leave him out of it...at least until we have got rid of at least 13 or 14 others..

    No witch hunt from me Val. I just say it as I see it. Thumbs up

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