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    valakari

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    Re: captain

    Post by valakari on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 12:04 am

    Keogh is the captain then..oh how i laughed at the thought of you Keogh haters...torn between backing Rowett but still hating Keogh...good lad..
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    MadAmster

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    Re: captain

    Post by MadAmster on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 9:11 am

    Time will tell Val. We didn't see the whirling dervish side of Keogh in this game. At times he was pointing and directing, doing the Captain's job. Davies also coached people. I hope Keogh has turned the corner but a little voice keeps telling me that this was a pre season friendly and there was little pressure. Let's see how he copes with adversity in a competitive match.

    I am in the "I hope he nails it" camp but I fear the dervish will reappear when the going gets tough.
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    Loughborough Ram

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    Re: captain

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 9:23 am

    Val, he can be made captain for the rest of his career but I will always maintain that he is not a captain and I was gob smacked when he led the team out yesterday. For me this is a big question mark, along with Butterfield being selected, against Rowetts judgement.

    I'm not a hater, he played well yesterday, but he is a better player without responsibility, when he can just get on with his game. This isn't just me jumping on a bandwagon either, I said this on here soon after he arrived.
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    MadAmster

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    Re: captain

    Post by MadAmster on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 12:36 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:Val, he can be made captain for the rest of his career but I will always maintain that he is not a captain and I was gob smacked when he led the team out yesterday. For me this is a big question mark, along with Butterfield being selected, against Rowetts judgement.

    I'm not a hater, he played well yesterday, but he is a better player without responsibility, when he can just get on with his game. This isn't just me jumping on a bandwagon either, I said this on here soon after he arrived.

    I'm with you on that Loughie, however, using my optimist's head, just maybe, having Davies alongside him who is a good organiser who doesn't flap or do the dervish whirl will have a positive effect on Keogh. Stranger things have happened.
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    outsider

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    Re: captain

    Post by outsider on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 12:57 pm

    Under Clements I thought he played well with out being captain . Keogh is not as bad as some make out., with David there it will improve his game.
    As for captain, well we have Davies hudds and Martin through the spine of the team ALL can be a captain in they own right so we have leaders and when all play as a team we can be a team hard to beat Fingers crossed
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    KeoghKeogh

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    Re: captain

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 1:55 pm

    Keogh had a spell in the second half when he kept giving a series of short hospital passes to Huddlestone on the right side of our back line. Huddlestone was facing back towards Keogh with a man on him each time that Keogh gave him the ball. Eventually Huddlestone managed to moved the ball forward and out of danger.

    Keogh was under no particular presure but kept making the wrong decisions. After Huddlestone sorted things out Keogh did his head down, arms out, shakes head at Huddlestone points towards nowhere in particular - mainly for the benefit of the crowd, I guess.

    I doubt that Huddlestone will be prepared to be Keogh's new fall guy now that Christie's left!

    It was a part-cameo of Keogh and why he isn't suited for captaincy.
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    Stockport Ram

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    Re: captain

    Post by Stockport Ram on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 6:06 pm

    valakari wrote:Keogh is the captain then..oh how i laughed at the thought of you Keogh haters...torn between backing Rowett but still hating Keogh...good lad..



    To suggest that anyone's "hatred" of Keogh is such that we would not be delighted to see him perform well is an insult.
    I would be delighted to see him lead us to promotion.


    Unfortunately, I know that I am right in saying that this isn't going to happen. Arrogant? Too bloody right I am, on this point anyway.


    I bumped into Nigel Pearson at the Open and after one or three pints had the courage to ask him why he gave Keogh a three year extension to his contract. The answer I got, which I do not intend to share, convinced me that my judgement is spot on.

    He may well perform as well as he did without the armband last season, but there is a generic disaster always around the corner. We won't go up with him at the club.

    Most of the problems have moved on, but he remains.
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    Jackal

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    Re: captain

    Post by Jackal on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 7:15 pm

    Aitor Karanka has Keogh down as our star man in today's Sun newspaper. Not sure I agree there Aitor but obviously you know a tad more about football than I do.


    Last edited by Jackal on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 9:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    KeoghKeogh

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    Re: captain

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 8:16 pm

    Stockport Ram wrote:
    valakari wrote:Keogh is the captain then..oh how i laughed at the thought of you Keogh haters...torn between backing Rowett but still hating Keogh...good lad..



    To suggest that anyone's "hatred" of Keogh is such that we would not be delighted to see him perform well is an insult.
    I would be delighted to see him lead us to promotion.


    Unfortunately, I know that I am right in saying that this isn't going to happen.  Arrogant?  Too bloody right I am, on this point anyway.


    I bumped into Nigel Pearson at the Open and after one or three pints had the courage to ask him why he gave Keogh a three year extension to his contract. The answer I got, which I do not intend to share, convinced me that my judgement is spot on.

    He may well perform as well as he did without the armband last season, but there is a generic disaster always around the corner. We won't go up with him at the club.

    Most of the problems have moved on, but he remains.

    MM.... interesting
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    CornwallRam

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    Re: captain

    Post by CornwallRam on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 11:27 pm

    Jackal wrote:Aitor Karanka has Keogh down as our star man in today's Sun newspaper. Not sure I agree there Aitor but obviously you know a tad more about football than I do.

    I agree with Aitor. Keogh was our best player on Saturday. He's often good in un-pressurised situations. Yet when the going gets tough he gets all windmilly. He scapegoats other players and, if rumour is to be believed, is quite happy to share his opinion on the weaknesses of his teammates, the coaching staff and the manager with our illustrious Chairman.

    My issue with Keogh is not his quality as a player- he has his weaknesses but so does almost every player in the Championship - and Keogh is a decent centre half at this level. My issue is that he's the cornerstone of our losing culture - and that won't change whilst he remains skipper - and quite possibly, given his influence, won't change whilst he's at the club.
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    MadAmster

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    Re: captain

    Post by MadAmster on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 6:47 am

    I think that having a natural leader in Davies alongside him might help him and cut out the dervish like histrionics.
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    Stockport Ram

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    Re: captain

    Post by Stockport Ram on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 7:09 am

    CornwallRam wrote:
    Jackal wrote:Aitor Karanka has Keogh down as our star man in today's Sun newspaper. Not sure I agree there Aitor but obviously you know a tad more about football than I do.

    I agree with Aitor. Keogh was our best player on Saturday. He's often good in un-pressurised situations. Yet when the going gets tough he gets all windmilly. He scapegoats other players and, if rumour is to be believed, is quite happy to share his opinion on the weaknesses of his teammates, the coaching staff and the manager with our illustrious Chairman.

    My issue with Keogh is not his quality as a player- he has his weaknesses but so does almost every player in the Championship - and Keogh is a decent centre half at this level. My issue is that he's the cornerstone of our losing culture - and that won't change whilst he remains skipper - and quite possibly, given his influence, won't change whilst he's at the club.


    Superb post.

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    Loughborough Ram

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    Re: captain

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 7:39 am

    I'd sooner have a whole hearted trier like Keogh who makes mistakes but never hides, in the side than a Butterfield who is ineffectual and drifts out of every game he plays.

    chicken
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    Re: captain

    Post by chicken on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 7:54 am

    CornwallRam wrote:
    Jackal wrote:Aitor Karanka has Keogh down as our star man in today's Sun newspaper. Not sure I agree there Aitor but obviously you know a tad more about football than I do.

    I agree with Aitor. Keogh was our best player on Saturday. He's often good in un-pressurised situations. Yet when the going gets tough he gets all windmilly. He scapegoats other players and, if rumour is to be believed, is quite happy to share his opinion on the weaknesses of his teammates, the coaching staff and the manager with our illustrious Chairman.

    My issue with Keogh is not his quality as a player- he has his weaknesses but so does almost every player in the Championship - and Keogh is a decent centre half at this level. My issue is that he's the cornerstone of our losing culture - and that won't change whilst he remains skipper - and quite possibly, given his influence, won't change whilst he's at the club.
    Excellent post.
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    rob

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    Re: captain

    Post by rob on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 9:09 am

    He will continue to divide opinion - I have never rated him but I respect the views of people who don't share my view.

    I think we all hope he has a blinder of a season - just some of us doubt he has it in him...
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    rob

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    Re: captain

    Post by rob on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 9:43 am

    Does Mel Morris decide..........
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    Jackal

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    Re: captain

    Post by Jackal on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 9:47 am

    rob wrote:He will continue to divide opinion - I have never rated him but I respect the views of people who don't share my view.

    I think we all hope he has a blinder of a season - just some of us doubt he has it in him...

    It's not just his own personal performances. It's his ability or lack thereof to inspire/cajole his teammates when the going gets tough. Derby have looked rudderless for far too long. If we're playing namby-pamby little passes with no urgency to get forward at 0-0 or 0-1 it is partly Keogh's responsibility as captain to urge his team forward. If an Ince type looks disinterested, it is partly Keogh's responsibility to have a word in his ear. If a player is having a bit of a shaky spell it is Keogh's responsibility to pull him to one side and say "Look, just calm down and try to keep it simple for a bit." I see none of this, just outstretched arms, a bit of finger-wagging or the shouting at Cyrus. A captain should know his teammates and how to get them on their game, perhaps more so than the manager.
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    rob

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    Re: captain

    Post by rob on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 11:31 am

    but he is mel's representative in the dressing room.....

    don't forget whose train set this is...
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    KeoghKeogh

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    Re: captain

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 5:46 am

    rob wrote:but he is mel's representative in the dressing room.....

    don't forget whose train set this is...

    As GR said about Davies, 'He's been captain at virtually every club that he has played for'.

    Maybe, unlike ours, those clubs were meritocracies Gary.

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    swadieram

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    Re: captain

    Post by swadieram on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 6:15 am

    Very disappointed
    Looks like Mel has got to rowett
    lots of keogh blunders to look forward to !
    Looks like championship football for a few years yet
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    Loughborough Ram

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    Re: captain

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 7:42 am

    I can't believe that so many of you seem to think that Keogh is solely responsible for us still being in the championship, and that we can't be promoted with him at the club. Sorry but that thinking is nonsensical
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    rob

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    Re: captain

    Post by rob on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 8:16 am

    that's a tad unfair luffs - I have never rated the guy since his debut away to Mansfield - he has been directly responsible for a number of goals (I know defenders will get punished more than attackers etc etc) and if rumours are to be believed he is far too close to the chairman.

    Many many people have actually questioned his captaining skills and motivational abilities on here on numerous occasions.

    This is offset by a number of good displays and great interceptions. He is obviously liked and respected by successive coaches/managers at the club.

    I think everyone on here wants him to have a blinder of a season but we were all hoping for change on the pitch as well as off it.

    Continue as before seems to be a recipe for failure and that is what is disappointing.

    I sincerely hope I am wrong and he is multiple player of the season and lifts the championship/play off trophy in May.

    But if past performance IS a guide to the future then I doubt it.
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    thatguyfromderby

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    Re: captain

    Post by thatguyfromderby on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 12:09 pm

    I would ask one simple question. How important is the captain's armband in reality?

    I would imagine that Carson, Davis, Huddlestone, Johnson, Martin, and Nugent will all be marshalling the team to some degree anyway.
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    MadAmster

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    Re: captain

    Post by MadAmster on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 12:24 pm

    Of all the players used last season, Keogh finished equal10th in the COYR MOTM table with Pearce. They were the highest placed outfield defenders in one of the meanest defences in the League. He has his weaknesses and we all know what they are.

    No faulting his effort, but you couldn't fault Buckenbauer's either and we all agreed it was time for him to move on. Maybe it's that time for Keogh too. maybe he would benefit from having Davies skipper the side. maybe merely having Davies alongside him, pointing, advising, cajoling etc might make him play at his best. If that happens we all benefit. If not he will again do well in the MOTM and get lambasted for his whirling dervish act.

    Come on You Rams, let's start with 3 points this Friday at the Stadium of Light.
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    ShardlowSheep

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    Re: captain

    Post by ShardlowSheep on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 1:37 pm

    I am delighted that Keogh is staying as captain as it means he is likely to start most games. He can continue to be our best defender as he has been for most of the passed 5 seasons despite what a lot of people on here think. I feel he will play even better with a decent defender like Davies alongside him.
    Keogh is at his best when be can rely on his partner to defend properly so that he can concentrate on his own game rather than having to always try to cover their mistakes leading to him making some of his own.

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