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    Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

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    MadAmster

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    Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by MadAmster on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 4:14 pm

    1st half.

    They are in the final qualifying round of the Champions League. We are in the Championship. They are the better side. have had us under pressure but we have been equal to it once we realised we can't faff about on the ball. They seem to have Fozzy sorted and are nullifying his attacking quality.

    I just don't get the Butterfield thing. Did he make a forwards pass in the 1st half? Not surprised Bryson got the nod at HT.

    We have had a couple of chances and have looked good at times. We won't play a side this good in the League.

    Reasonably happy with it so far, except for Butters. JR has done enough today to get the nod on Mason for the starting role IMO.

    2nd half post up later.



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    MadAmster

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    Re: Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by MadAmster on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 4:24 pm

    60 minutes 0-1.

    I fishcaking hate this zonal marking in and around the box. Wisdom found himself behind Rupp rather than being goalside and ballside of him to mark him properly.



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    Re: Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by MadAmster on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 4:35 pm

    Peno struck hard but way too close to the keeper. Who will take them in the League? Might be better if we don't get any.



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    Re: Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by MadAmster on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 4:39 pm

    80th minute - Vydra intercepts a poor back pass and puts it away very well. 1-1



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    Re: Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by MadAmster on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 4:41 pm

    2 minutes later... 1-2.

    Great finish from Wagner.



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    Re: Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by MadAmster on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 4:52 pm

    Loss but a decent enough performance against decent oppo.



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    Re: Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by bramhallram on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 5:04 pm

    Entertaining game, but not sure we learned anything we didn't already know. Huddlestone was our best player. Never wasted a pass. Shame we had no-one good enough to take advantage. Russell and Weimann tried hard but aren't the answer to providing the bullets for Martin or Nugent to fire. And as for Butterfield...

    I hope GR is still looking for new players.

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    Re: Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by RRC on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 5:19 pm

    bramhallram wrote:Entertaining game, but not sure we learned anything we didn't already know. Huddlestone was our best player. Never wasted a pass. Shame we had no-one good enough to take advantage. Russell and Weimann tried hard but aren't the answer to providing the bullets for Martin or Nugent to fire. And as for Butterfield...

    I hope GR is still looking for new players.

    .

    Totally agree - not that the shooting has been that accurate from any of our players pre-season.

    I thought Wisdom and Huddlestone were outstanding for us,



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    Re: Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by DavesaRam on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 5:36 pm

    Would agree with all of the above. Hoffenheim were a class above us, and it was obvious in the first half, and although we did threaten to a degree, the difference in class meant we weren't that likely to score. Butterfeild has looked more positive for most of pre-season, but seemed to go into his shell in this match, although he makes our dead-ball situations a bit more positive.

    Bryson coming on second half did make a big difference, especially as I was expecting hi to just run around a lot without making much difference - nice to be wrong on that one. As Bramhall says I hope we can learn how to put Huddzy's passing to better use, he was marvelous.

    Shame about the penalty - Braddley hit it hard enough, but it was actually an easy save, although the Rams TV guys have already awarded it "Save of the Season" for the entire footballing world! A shame also about Nugent - he had two really good chances, but both of them were really poncy efforts, so we should have had more goals, which has been a consistent observation by Gary Rowett.

    Defensively, we were pretty solid for much of the time, without a spell of pressure resulting in us collapsing or pressing the panic button - while acknowledging what Ammy said about zonal marking.

    However I don't expect to see as good an opposition in the Championship this season, so we should do OK.

    Finally, I watched the match on Rams TV, along with the two previous friendlies. What are the commentary team doing? Today, we got Darren Bent as the "pundit", so we had to do a replay in slow motion in order to decipher what he was actually saying, but for more than 80% of the time, they were'nt commentating on the match, they were just waffling on about football related stuff like you might do before the match or at half-time with the person sitting next to you if he just won't shut up. Then we would get a recap of what had happened in the match, then he would suddenly try and describe some match action, just as the ball goes out into touch and the action stops. Very poor stuff. Come on Rams TV, if you are paying someone to be a commentator, it might be worthwhile making sure that he actually commentates on the game we are watching. Oh well, rant over.

    Overall, we have reasons to be quietly confident of a steady season, although I don't think we have the flair or creativity to be threatening the top two positions. It might all depend on the really, really good signing we were told is coming, unless that was PR spin to placate us when we only got a small amount for our Will.



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    Re: Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 6:49 pm

    Just got back. A few random comments.

    A decent attendance of 11000 plus. It was interesting that the whole stadium was open.

    Jonathan Mitchell looked like the ghost of Will Hughes. Eerie.

    Carson was at fault for their first. He did ok otherwise.

    Martin was like an average version of his old self. He conned a couple of freekicks and didn't look particularly mobile. He read a though ball well and nearly got us a goal. He also did a decent impression of a pantomime villian though when appealing to the crowd a couple of times after being pulled up for blatant fouls. It wasn't quite the full Keogh, but not far off.

    Keogh was captain. Jeez, why? That said, he was generally ok.

    Davies looked ok in the air but made a few errors that could have been costly. It was interesting that Rams TV interviewed him after the game rather than Keogh. Odd that.

    Weimann and Russell looked very sharp and willing.

    Johnson looked like he wanted a fight and was lucky that their big guy didn't oblige him. His penalty was powerful but straight down the middle (I think) the keeper saved well with one hand onto the bar.

    Forsyth struggled at times due to their speed and overlaps. Great to see him back though.

    Wisdom looked strong throughout without showing off.

    The subs looked keen to impress and did ok. Vydra took his goal easily. Nugent had a bit of a mare in front of goal for the short time that he was on. He certainly should have scored one.

    Hoffenheim are a very good side with strength in depth. They would be likely to win the championship oN today's showing.

    Huddlestone's passing was impressive. He played slightly higher up the field than I had expected - that meant that sometimes he wasn't the last midfielder.

    Huddlestone was our MOTM by a country mile. On today, an excellent signing. Wisdom was next in line. On today, a very good signing. Davies looks to be probably better than Pearce and Shackell. On today, a decent signing.

    If they stay fit, we should expect to see Huddlestone and Wisdom in this season's c/ship team of the season.
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    Re: Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by New England Ram on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 7:25 pm

    DavesaRam wrote:Would agree with all of the above. Hoffenheim were a class above us, and it was obvious in the first half,  and although we did threaten to a degree, the difference in class meant we weren't that likely to score. Butterfeild has looked more positive for most of pre-season, but seemed to go into his shell in this match, although he makes our dead-ball situations a bit more positive.

    Bryson coming on second half did make a big difference, especially as I was expecting hi to just run around a lot without making much difference - nice to be wrong on that one. As Bramhall says I hope we can learn how to put Huddzy's passing to better use, he was marvelous.

    Shame about the penalty - Braddley hit it hard enough, but it was actually an easy save, although the Rams TV guys have already awarded it "Save of the Season" for the entire footballing world! A shame  also about Nugent - he had two really good chances, but both of them were really poncy efforts, so we should have had  more goals, which has been a consistent observation by Gary Rowett.

    Defensively, we were pretty solid for much of the time, without a spell of pressure resulting in us collapsing or pressing the panic button - while acknowledging what Ammy said about zonal marking.

    However I don't expect to see as good an opposition in the Championship this season, so we should do OK.

    Finally, I watched the match on Rams TV, along with the two previous friendlies. What are the commentary team doing? Today, we got Darren Bent as the "pundit", so  we had to do a replay in slow motion in order to decipher what he was actually saying, but for more than 80% of the time, they were'nt commentating on the match, they were just waffling on about football related stuff like you might do before the match or at half-time with the person sitting next to you if he just won't shut up. Then we would get a recap of what had happened in the match, then he would suddenly try and describe some match action, just as the ball goes out into touch and the action stops. Very poor stuff. Come on Rams TV, if you are paying someone to be a commentator, it might be worthwhile making sure that he actually commentates on the game we are watching. Oh well, rant over.

    Overall, we have reasons to be quietly confident of a steady season, although I don't think we have the flair or creativity to be threatening the top two positions. It might all depend on the really, really good signing we were told is coming, unless that was PR spin to placate us when we only got a small amount for our Will.

    Dave I totally agree regarding commentary just focus on whose doing what with the ball and forget the sideshow..
    I mentioned the same thing to someone at the club.



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    Re: Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by CornwallRam on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 8:42 pm

    I seem to be in a minority of one, but I thought that Huddelstone was ineffective today. As a holding midfield player he didn't actually hold position, track runners or close down the space between midfield and defence. This gave Hoffenheim a free path towards our goal.

    Offensively, he personally, was pretty good, but still ineffective. I know that sounds contradictory, but I'll explain what I mean. He kept punting accurate long balls forward for the strikers to run onto. He did it a couple of times for Martin, which was just silly. Far more worthwhile should have been the balls into the paths of Weimann and Russell. Yet, their lack of (*skill/vision/quality/practice *delete as appropriate) meant those situations were generally wasted. Even when they did look to be making ground, Chris Martin was so slow that there was no one up in support and Hoffenhiem just crowded them out.

    I think that Huddlestone is a good player, but at present he doesn't fit into this 433 set up. Admittedly, friendlies are a poor indication of real form, but if we played like we did toady in the league, we'd be ion the relegation zone. I know that the Germans are a class above, but they were only going through the motions, and Championship teams will have far more knowledge of how to nullify our 433 system. My solution would be to scrap 433 and build a side to around Huddlestone's passing.
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    Re: Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by New England Ram on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 1:18 am

    Corny you just helped me make the point I'm about to make.
    Your observation of the game is just what an opinion and criticism should be.
    I despair today when I look at some of the comments on social media.
    People berating players by calling them ****ing wan*ers and fu**ing shi*.
    Calling Rowett and pining for McClaren ..
    I despair I really do..everyone is entitled to their opinion and we all see a game and individuals differently.
    But I just don't understand the viciousness of it at all.
    This club will never move forward with negativity at the level and intensity it is for seemingly many so called fans.
    I love the internet in that it gave me an opportunity to stay connected to my club and home.
    I hate it for the platform it's given to all the prats out there.

    Good luck Gary I'm afraid your going to need it.



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    Re: Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by valakari on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 9:15 am

    good points..to add one or 2, the club wont move anywhere, while he plays Butterfield!
    Do Hope George Thorne gets fit sometime soon, but as it stands, we are weak with numbers and quality of midfield players..i suppose it depends how they are going to play..because if 4-2-3-1..then Huddlestone and Thorne/Johnson can play the 2, and that would allow Bryson to play behind Martin, or indeed, Nugent or Vydra to do the same.
    I do worry that Weimann,Russell,Bennett,Anya,Blackman....not much quality there and at least 2 of them will probably play!
    As for the defence, i'm happy the 4 he picked.
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    Re: Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 9:58 am

    What I saw

    Good: Widom, Keogh, Huddlestone, Bryson, Carson

    Ok: Davies, Forsyth, Johnson,

    Less than expected: Russell, Wiemann, Martin

    WHY: Butterfield

    Inexplicable: Keogh as Captain

    Disappointing: A crowd of just 11500. It was only a fiver for f*cks sake!

    As a spectacle it was ok, some good things but I hate myself for trying to draw conclusions from a friendly because next Friday will be a whole different ball game. I thought the starting forwards were exposed by the ones that replaced them and if fridays team is picked on merit Bryson, Nugent, Vydra, Anya and Bennett would all start. As much as I think being captain affects Keoghs performance not being captain affected Davies in my opinion. He looked edgy and nervous at times and I think he is a player who would grow with the responsibilty of the armband.

    There are a couple of question marks over Rowetts head in my opinion but they will be answered in time so bring on Friday.
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    Re: Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by whestonram on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 11:11 am

    I seem to be in a minority here, but I thought Wisdom was disappointing. He was OK defensively, but lost the ball a number of times when we played out from the back through him, was ponderous on the ball and slow in chasing their players. Forsyth looked better. Everyone looked kind of OK. Weimann I thought looked sharp and Vydra when he came on. BJ looked like he wanted a fight. I thought Butterfield worked harder than I've seen him do before, but not rally good enough. Bryson was a bit better, but if we're going to play three in midfield we need better players there. I thought we looked better when we went 4-2-3-1.

    My mate, who is a Man City fan but came to the game with me, asked me who our star player is, and I had to say we've sold them. Tom seems to be by far our best player now. Let's hope either we buy a stand out attacking player, or one of the many average attacking players steps up.

    I can't say it left me feeling positive about Friday night, though I hadn't realised Hoffenheim had finished fourth and are in the Champions league until the end of the match, which slightly changed my opinion, but I still didn't really see anything to get excited about.
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    Re: Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by CornwallRam on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 11:56 am

    whestonram wrote:I seem to be in a minority here, but I thought Wisdom was disappointing. He was OK defensively, but lost the ball a number of times when we played out from the back through him, was ponderous on the ball and slow in chasing their players.  Forsyth looked better.  Everyone looked kind of OK. Weimann I thought looked sharp and Vydra when he came on. BJ looked like he wanted a fight. I thought Butterfield worked harder than I've seen him do before, but not rally good enough.  Bryson was a bit better, but if we're going to play three in midfield we need better players there.  I thought we looked better when we went 4-2-3-1.

    My mate, who is a Man City fan but came to the game with me, asked me who our star player is, and I had to say we've sold them.  Tom seems to be by far our best player now. Let's hope either we buy a stand out attacking player, or one of the many average attacking players steps up.

    I can't say it left me feeling positive about Friday night, though I hadn't realised Hoffenheim had finished fourth and are in the Champions league until the end of the match, which slightly changed my opinion, but I still didn't really see anything to get excited about.

    I thought that Wisdom played as he did in his previous spell - defensively solid, unadventurous and a bit weak on the ball.

    When 433 worked best last time we almost played with three at the back and Fozzy as a winger who would drop back when we were under pressure or to defend set pieces. When we played out we didn't play tippy-tappy across the back, we either punted the ball to Forsyth or rolled it quickly out to Thorne, who often had Hughes's ability to receive the ball under pressure to get him out of tricky situations. Wisdom's inability on the ball wasn't really a problem. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out this time.
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    Re: Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by New England Ram on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 12:32 pm

    I don't think there will be anything to get excited about.
    I don't expect us to be anything other than workmanlike and predictable.
    It's start again and rebuild time as far as I can see and it's going to take time.
    We have too many players and too many ordinary options we need to get rid of some of those options so that Rowett can pick his best eleven as ordinary as it may be and stick to it.
    Strip the squad down to basics get rid of the waste...clearly not an easy task though.
    Once we have got rid of them and get down to a hard core and a consistent team selection then hopefully he starts to add some quality.
    If he's given the time that is.


    Last edited by New England Ram on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total



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    Re: Hoffenheim - thoughts and reports

    Post by MadAmster on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 12:33 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:

    Disappointing: A crowd of just 11500. It was only a fiver for f*cks sake!


    How many watched form the comfort of their living room?

    My lad came down an hour before kick off..... seen the team Dad? I hadn't. Want to know what it is? What formation? 4-3-3. I then reeled off 10 names and was spot on. I then said that I would play Bennett but GR will have selected JR......

    I hope he goes 1-4-2-3-1 at Blunderland

    Carson
    Wisdom Keogh Davies Forsyth
    Huddlestone Bryson/Johnson
    Bennett Nugent Weimann
    Martin




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