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    Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

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    Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by RRC on Sat 16 Sep 2017, 5:00 pm

    Derby fielded an unchanged side from the XI that beat Hull last Saturday. Bristol City made
    four changes from the side that drew 3-3 with Wolves on Tuesday.

    Both sides started in attacking mode, shooting on sight but not accurately. An over-aggressive
    tackle by Johnson gained him another yellow card, and Carson had to make a good save after
    a horrible headed back pass by Keogh. The Rams looked sharp with Baird and Weimann
    delivering some excellent passes. Vydra came very close with a free kick which grazed the post,
    and later he was obstructed when chasing a poor back pass by Bristol. Referee Martin Atkinson
    did nothing about the obvious foul. Both sides had chances from corners but the goals wouldn’t
    come.  Carson made a superb save from a deflected shot. Fielding brought down Vydra as he broke
    into the area from a Nugent pass and Vydra scored the penalty off the bar on 27 minutes.

    Five minutes later, Bristol burst through the Derby defence far too easily, because the Rams failed
    to track their opponents, but Carson made splendid save to deny Leko. Weimann and Baird
    combined well on the right to create attacks but Bristol snuffed them out. Derby, mainly Huddlestone,
    gave away too many silly free kicks in their own half and were lucky not to be punished. The Robins
    worked hard, pushing forward and creating lots of chances for an equaliser. They had 13 shots (4 on
    target) in the half to Derby’s 3 (1). Derby didn’t defend well, backing off and conceding too much
    space, and Carson had to make another great save. It was a relief for the Rams when half-time came.
    HT Bristol City 0-1 Derby



    Derby started the second half as badly as they ended the first and this time they were punished for
    being too slow to react. Carson had no chance when Woodrow headed the equaliser on 50 minutes.
    Bristol were very much in charge and Keogh gave away a penalty by making a daft challenge when
    Leko, on loan from West Brom, teased him with a few stepovers. The division’s top scorer Reid made
    no mistake with the 55th minute penalty. Olsson made a good chance for Nugent but he skyed his shot.

    Martin and Winnall replaced Nugent and Vydra on 59 minutes, Derby switched to 4-4-2 and briefly looked
    better. Johnson should have scored from a fine cross by Lawrence but his shot was wide. Olsson delivered
    a wonderful cross but none of the Rams had gambled on it. On 71 minutes Russell came on for Weimann.
    Keogh made two fine last ditch tackles to stop Bristol attacks and Derby started to press a bit harder at
    last, but they were still vulnerable to quick counter attacks as usual. The Rams resorted to hopeful long
    balls in attack and the Bristol defence lapped them up.  Huddlestone conceded another free kick and
    Paterson’s shot went in off the bar with 7 minutes to go. More terrible Derby defending allowed Bristol to
    score their fourth goal in injury time.
    FT Bristol City 4–1 Derby

    Derby were second best for most of the game. Bristol’s players were fitter, they worked harder, and their
    skill and teamwork were superior. Derby’s players behaved as if the game was won when they scored.
    They didn’t have another shot on goal until the second half - just two on target in the whole match - and
    they sat back inviting attacks from their more energetic opponents. The score probably flattered Derby.



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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by CornwallRam on Sat 16 Sep 2017, 6:05 pm

    I only managed to listen to RD for about 70 minutes, so I'm relying on the incomplete ramblings of Ramage and Co. It sounded like we were dire after our goal. It's early days yet, but our lack of midfielders who can run (and maybe even tackle) looks a little concerning.

    We were so good against Hull. I wonder whether that was a fluke, or we're just stuttering a little as we rebuild? The sobering thought is that we'd now be 20th without those 3 points from Hull. I wonder how itchy Mel's trigger finger would be getting in that situation? My worry is that we could be there in a couple of weeks with our pedestrian midfield duo and we can't do anything about it until January.
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Sat 16 Sep 2017, 6:24 pm

    Our lack of credible leadership on the pitch meant that, once again we struggled when a team pressed us by doing something a bit different - and we fell apart when we conceded 2.

    Groundhog day.

    This will keep happening until our manager has a captain who can provide leadership of the manager's team on the pitch - when we struggle. Anyone can be captain when we are winning; it's when we are losing that credible captaincy is needed.

    Anyway, Keogh played today so he'll no doubt pick up votes for MOTM as usual. Obvioulsy it's Johnny Russell's fault that we lost - as usual.

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by norfolkram on Sat 16 Sep 2017, 6:38 pm

    Russell's fault he's shite and Rowett out
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Sat 16 Sep 2017, 7:04 pm

    KeoghKeogh wrote:Our lack of credible leadership on the pitch meant that, once again we struggled when a team pressed us by doing something a bit different - and we fell apart when we conceded 2.

    Groundhog day.

    This will keep happening until our manager has a captain who can provide leadership of the manager's team on the pitch - when we struggle. Anyone can be captain when we are winning; it's when we are losing that credible captaincy is needed.

    Anyway, Keogh played today so he'll no doubt pick up votes for MOTM as usual. Obvioulsy it's Johnny Russell's fault that we lost - as usual.


    Whilst I agree that Keogh isn't a captain, but the fact that he has been named as ours wasn't the reason for todays defeat.

    We supposedly have other 'leaders' on the pitch who should be pulling their fingers out when the going gets tough, and are equally responsible for hiding away when they're needed.

    My problem with Keogh as captain isn't that he doesn't motivate others or dictate the way we play, it's that his game suffers under the responsibility. Other players should be capable of motivating themselves and deciding the right thing to do under pressure and are getting off lightly if we load all of the blame on the captain.
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by SawleyRam on Sat 16 Sep 2017, 7:11 pm

    CornwallRam wrote:I only managed to listen to RD for about 70 minutes, so I'm relying on the incomplete ramblings of Ramage and Co. It sounded like we were dire after our goal. It's early days yet, but our lack of midfielders who can run (and maybe even tackle) looks a little concerning.

    We were so good against Hull. I wonder whether that was a fluke, or we're just stuttering a little as we rebuild? The sobering thought is that we'd now be 20th without those 3 points from Hull. I wonder how itchy Mel's trigger finger would be getting in that situation? My worry is that we could be there in a couple of weeks with our pedestrian midfield duo and we can't do anything about it until January.

    Not to worry Corny there's only 106 days to go before that window opens........until then Flogging dead horse
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by SawleyRam on Sat 16 Sep 2017, 7:21 pm

    Now I've calmed down a little the thing that confuses me most is that this very same team put one of the pre-season favourites to the sword with a 5-0 thrashing showing us they have the capabilities of setting this league alight. On to the the next league match and calling the team a damp squid is being too kind to them.

    I hope they have not become a team of 'homers' and that their travel sickness can be curable.

    Over to you Doctor Rowett.
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Sat 16 Sep 2017, 7:41 pm

    Don't be confused Sawls, if a team think they are good and come to us thinking that all they have to do is play football against us, we'll look good against them. It's when we come up against teams who think that they have something to prove and are prepared to work hard for 90 minutes that we struggle because we are in the first catagory and we don't want to match the teams in the second catagory
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by bramhallram on Sat 16 Sep 2017, 7:52 pm

    SawleyRam wrote:
    I hope they have not become a team of 'homers' and that their travel sickness can be curable.


    Conceding seven goals in our last two away matches in the Championship certainly suggests we have a big problem. Most teams can manage to pick up points at home. Promotion contenders have the strength and character to pick them up away from home as well.

    I expected GR to make us hard to beat. Instead, having lost to Wolves, Sheff Utd and Bristol City, we're worse than last season. He doesn't seem to be getting his message through to the players, and that's a bit of a worry.

    .

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by chicken on Sat 16 Sep 2017, 8:43 pm

    Keogh- Barker
    Keogh- Buxton
    Keogh- Shotton
    Keogh- Shackell
    Keogh- Pearce
    Keogh- Davies

    But it's always the other guy yeah? (Taken from Twitter)

    I don't care what anyone says, whilst he remains in the team we are going nowhere.
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Sat 16 Sep 2017, 9:55 pm

    After two such dismally inept away performances in the league, it seems odd to me that the only criticism is of Keogh. I bet the other players love having him as captain if we, the fans lay it all at his door.

    Personally I think that they all need a rocket up the ar*e, including the manager.
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by Jackal on Sat 16 Sep 2017, 10:39 pm

    After watching both Rowett's & Davies' post match interviews on Ramsplayer, I can see there being a few heated debates when the squad watch the game back on DVD. Oh, to be a fly on the wall when they do. It would be interesting to see which players hold their hands up and say "yeah, I should have done more," and which are totally oblivious to what they need to do better or unwilling to work harder for the cause.
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by Stockport Ram on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 1:41 am

    Loughborough Ram wrote:
    KeoghKeogh wrote:Our lack of credible leadership on the pitch meant that, once again we struggled when a team pressed us by doing something a bit different - and we fell apart when we conceded 2.

    Groundhog day.

    This will keep happening until our manager has a captain who can provide leadership of the manager's team on the pitch - when we struggle. Anyone can be captain when we are winning; it's when we are losing that credible captaincy is needed.

    Anyway, Keogh played today so he'll no doubt pick up votes for MOTM as usual. Obvioulsy it's Johnny Russell's fault that we lost - as usual.


    Whilst I agree that Keogh isn't a captain, but the fact that he has been named as ours wasn't the reason for todays defeat.

    We supposedly have other 'leaders' on the pitch who should be pulling their fingers out when the going gets tough, and are equally responsible for hiding away when they're needed.

    My problem with Keogh as captain isn't that he doesn't motivate others or dictate the way we play, it's that his game suffers under the responsibility. Other players should be capable of motivating themselves and deciding the right thing to do under pressure and are getting off lightly if we load all of the blame on the captain.


    You are half right. His game does suffer.
    The bigger problem is that, after a 20 minute bombardment either side of half time, including the penalty, any motivation he could give as captain would be as much use as a one legged man in a bum kicking contest.


    Regardless of the occasional last ditch saving tackle, you need a captain who inspires, takes responsibility for his own mistakes, and in whom you can believe and trust to back you up.  He may save us on occasions, but he doesn't inspire confidence from afar, or, more importantly, trust from within. 


    Have we got one in the squad?  

    I think we have two. One started today, without the armband, and one was on the bench.  









     
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by New England Ram on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 3:00 am

    Watched most of it .
    Back to being slow and imobile all over the pitch.
    If the lad from Brum had as good an engine as advertised that could prove to be an expensive **** up!



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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 8:39 am

    Stocky, players like Baird, Wisdom, Davies, Huddlestone for an example, should not depend on Keogh to make them do the right things. That result yesterday and the one against Sheff Utd would have happened regardless of whoever is captain because too many players let the club and themselves down with their own performances.

    If any other player was captain yesterday, would they be the focus of everybodys anger? I'm guessing that we would still be blaming Keogh because thats what we do at this club.
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 10:28 am

    Loughborough Ram wrote:Stocky, players like Baird, Wisdom, Davies, Huddlestone for an example, should not depend on Keogh to make them do the right things. That result yesterday and the one against Sheff Utd would have happened regardless of whoever is captain because too many players let the club and themselves down with their own performances.

    If any other player was captain yesterday, would they be the focus of everybodys anger? I'm guessing that we would still be blaming Keogh because thats what we do at this club.

    I'd have exactly the same view of any captain who didn't provide leadership when we need it (ie when we are struggling and/or losing).

    Our current captain's approach is to blame his teammates for errors - including his own. He is unable to organise his team mates when adjustments are needed to cope with the oppositions tactics or play. He cannot organise players for set pieces.

    His own performances have improved recently - until Bristol. I'm not sold on the notion that the captain has to be the best player. It obviously helps if a captain isn't making basic errors. But even with the errors, a captain who is a good leader can be excused a few of his own playing mistakes.

    IMHO a good player who is a poor captain is still a poor captain.

    Paul Clement got it right. Keogh is not a credible captain.

    He can be a decent player; he can be a liability as a player. I can excuse this to a large extent. I can't excuse his poor captaincy.

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by chicken on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 10:50 am

    There are people calling for Rowett to be given the sack. Absolutely ridiculous.
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by bramhallram on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 10:59 am

    New England Ram wrote:Watched most of it .
    Back to being slow and imobile all over the pitch.
    If the lad from Brum had as good an engine as advertised that could prove to be an expensive **** up!

    He's probably playing against us next week, so we'll have the chance to judge for ourselves. It wouldn't surprise me to see him totally boss the midfield.

    Our chances of signing him in January (assuming the interested parties could get the paperwork sorted out) haven't been helped by the sacking of Redknapp. Whoever takes over will have three months to assess his squad, and I expect 'our man' may no longer be up for sale.

    .
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 11:15 am

    Keogh, which of our players do you think would have inspired his colleagues to a better performance yesterday?

    I'm not saying that Keogh is blameless, I'm saying that yesterday and Sheff Utd won't be solved by a change of captain, it will only change by a recognition that there is a collective resposibility and a desire to work hard and that can only come from within not from a nominated captain.
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by valakari on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 11:43 am

    When Davies was beaten in the air by Woodrow because he got the wrong side of him...was that Keogh's fault...etc etc. The problem away from home is not Keogh! It is the message the manager put out before the game when he mentioned that basically a point away from home would be a decent result...his 'hard to beat ' mentality does my head in..
    How about we go out to win away as we do at home..we may then not be trying to hold onto 1-0 situations..but push on and use the momentum we have just got and keep playing. We did that against Hull, why not against Bristol..just because you play away from home shouldn't mean you change your approach...ive never understood that! Barcelona don't go away to Getafe and say 'right boys ' let's Nick a 1-0 win and then defend for your lives'


    Last edited by valakari on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by CornwallRam on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 11:49 am

    chicken wrote:There are people calling for Rowett to be given the sack. Absolutely ridiculous.

    I fully expect him to be gone by Christmas, which will be pretty unfair.

    Clearly Rowett has made mistakes, but which manager doesn't? Yet he's totally hamstrung by the FFP situation, which was caused by Mel's idea of separating out the head coach from the recruitment team we bought expensive players with no idea of how they'd fit together as a team. Since then we've been saddled with the twin burdens of being labelled a 'money splashing' club so prices always go up and not having much FFP budget to actually play with.

    Now we've got an expensive squad of ill fitting and generally average players, who believe that they are better than they actually are. It'll take a few years to clear them out, but I can't see Mel having the patience to let a manager get on with it.

    Sometimes I think that the answer to our problems is the guy in charge of Burton Albion.













    No, not that one! LOL roll

    Ben Robinson. An owner with far more sense than money, which I'm not sure is always true of Mel.
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by old ewe on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 12:09 pm

    I think our players are completely feather-bedded............pay wise, stadium, and especially Moor Farm........and incoming players catch the endemic disease.
    Why do people keep saying we have a squad of talented players ?? If so, the whole must be considerably worse than the parts.
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 12:43 pm

    it is! And it has been for a long long time.
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by Stockport Ram on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 1:12 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:Stocky, players like Baird, Wisdom, Davies, Huddlestone for an example, should not depend on Keogh to make them do the right things. That result yesterday and the one against Sheff Utd would have happened regardless of whoever is captain because too many players let the club and themselves down with their own performances.

    If any other player was captain yesterday, would they be the focus of everybodys anger? I'm guessing that we would still be blaming Keogh because thats what we do at this club.


    He's not the focus of my anger Loughie -  yesterday was just another example of us trying to change the way we play without having the players to do it.


    He is a problem. He will remain a problem whilst he remains at the club, of that I have absolutely no doubt, but he wasn't the reason we lost so heavily yesterday, although he clearly didn't help.

    As I see it, we are in the process of trying to change from a passing side into a "Rowett" side - one which gets the ball forward much quicker and then supports the front 1/2/3/4 at pace.

    The present incumbents simply do not have the wherewithall to do this.  I don't just mean the starting XI.

    Interestingly, we are probably more equipped to play this way with the Martin/Winnall partnership in a 442, but Martin just isn't mobile enough to suit GR's plans. If we build our team round Vydra, which seems to mean Nugent, then we have the mobility but perhaps not the strength.

    So, we need strong and mobile midfield players to compensate. We have Tom and Bradders.  One very good player who has the turning circle of a medium sized juggernaut, and another who would fit like a glove  as the scarecrow in any remake of the Wizard of Oz.


    I have made my feelings clear on the defence, so no need to repeat.


    Whilst we were all bored to tears with Clement's style, it actually worked.   Some of those who fitted it have moved on,  so GR simply doesn't have that option available to him, even if he wanted to play that way - which he doesn't. 

    The sum total of this shambles is that any young, eager, mobile passing team can tear us apart.

    It will take GR three more transfer windows to sort this out.
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by valakari on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 1:32 pm

    valakari wrote:When Davies was beaten in the air by Woodrow because he got the wrong side of him...was that Keogh's fault...etc etc. The problem away from home is not Keogh! It is the message the manager put out before the game when he mentioned that basically a point away from home would be a decent result...his 'hard to beat ' mentality does my head in..
    How about we go out to win away as we do at home..we may then not be trying to hold onto 1-0 situations..but push on and use the momentum we have just got and keep playing. We did that against Hull, why not against Bristol..just because you play away from home shouldn't mean you change your approach...ive never understood that! Barcelona don't go away to Getafe and say 'right boys ' let's Nick a 1-0 win and then defend for your lives'

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