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    Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

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    bramhallram

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by bramhallram on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 1:34 pm

    Stockport Ram wrote:
    It will take GR three more transfer windows to sort this out.

    ..and his chances of being here for three more transfer windows ?  

    I'd say somewhere between very unlikely and zero, unless he shows he can get current lot to start winning more games especially away from home.

    Patience from owners is not much in evidence these days.

    .
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    New England Ram
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by New England Ram on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 2:03 pm

    It was a poor transfer window we didn't get rid of enough and we didn't add enough speed or mobility.
    Maybe the lad from Brum should have been his first signing along with anther dog of war type player.
    That said its previous crap transfer windows why we find ourselves in the shi*.
    The pressure to buy in previous transfer windows is the reason I hate the transfer window.
    Clubs get pressured to produce new players and panic buy or even worse bulk buy and if you get it badly wrong as we have done find yourselves at 15th in the championship.
    Much preferred the old system where a well timed single signing could lift a team and its fans.
    To sack Rowett would be fu**ing stupid it was always going to be a long season imo.

    Could be worse we could be Sunderland who I think will go down again or a team beginning with the letter B ( look at the table).
    Honestly at this stage I will be happy if we manage to stay out of the relegation scrap.



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    mcsilks

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by mcsilks on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 2:34 pm

    Yes, Derby were poor yesterday but credit to Bristol City. They were very, very good. Full of invention and speed. If not for our stand-out player Carson, they would have had more.

    They spent big last season and look a fair bet to be in the mix.

    They are where I would like us to be. A side seemingly full of young, hungry players.
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    norfolkram

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by norfolkram on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 2:39 pm

    New season new manager new player's same old same old,we play pretty stuff when teams let us when they get into us we shrink away.Apart from Bradley who else is there to kick and snarl and even he's gone soft,this team needs some shouters and fighter's starting with the captain.
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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by RRC on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 4:01 pm

    mcsilks wrote:Yes, Derby were poor yesterday but credit to Bristol City. They were very, very good. Full of invention and speed. If not for our stand-out player Carson, they would have had more.

    They spent big last season and look a fair bet to be in the mix.

    They are where I would like us to be. A side seemingly full of young, hungry players.

    But only big by League One standards.

    Yesterday the Robins started with two loan players - Leko (W Brom) and Woodrow (Fulham) -
    who both came up through the parent club's academy.

    Two more players - Reid and Bryan - came up through Bristol City's academy.

    The Robins' other 7 starting players probably cost less than £7m, the dearest being --
    Baker (£3.9m, Villa)
    Paterson (£900k, Forest)
    Fielding (£675k, Derby)

    Apart from the two loan players, the average age of the Robins' team was 26 -
    Fielding was the oldest at 29 and Reid the youngest at 24.

    Whatever they do/did to assemble and train their team, it seems to be working
    better than what we're doing. Maybe a spell in League One concentrates minds
    on the essentials? It seems to have worked for Leicester and a few other clubs.



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    KeoghKeogh

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 4:48 pm

    On transfers and on alternative captains.

    I've said on here before that I thought that giving GR the pre-season job of sorting transfers (and giving it to him quite late after Rush..) could have been a problem. He obviously had a long list of players; he got some of them. Other than the lad from Brum, he no doubt had others who would have suited his system well. GR opbviously wanted more players out too. To judge GR now is unfair. He'll need more success in the Jan window. I think that he'll get this season and probably only part of next if we carry on like SUFC and BCFC. This is also unfair; but likely IMHO.

    Alternative captains; DT and the tv think that it is Davies- he's doing the post match for most games. Wisdom looks a class apart when he is at his best. Whether he can captain I dunno; but he'd be worth a try. George Thorne is captain material if he can become fit enough. I'd be interested in seeing how Huddlestone would do as captain too. For Davies, Wisdom (in particular), Thorne and Huddlestone the job might actually improve their performance.

    I'll discount Baird as I don't see him as a regular starter. If he is, he'd also be worth a go.

    So, no shortage of alternatives to Keogh a captain
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    DavesaRam

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by DavesaRam on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 6:19 pm

    On how could be beat Hull 5-0 and then dish up that type of performance?

    Mostly it is because we seem to be able to get into the heads of the Hull team, whoever they put in the side. We beat them 4 out of 5 times last season, and beat them comfortable, and it was clear in the 5-0 that the same thing was happening. At 2-0 they were struggling, and it was already game over at 3-0, and for much of the second half Hull were aching for the final whistle to go.

    But although the scoreline says "thrashing", it wasn't, we were efficient, that's all. Leicester used to do it to us during their time in the championship, and several people said "don't get carried away by beating Hull like that. At the moment, there aren't many teams who we can do their heads in, and as many have said in this thread, if the opposition are quick through the middle, we can't keep up with them.

    It is still largely the same squad doing the same failure to turn up year after year, regardless of who the manager is. And yet when we do press into the opposition and "rat about" as RD put it, we can impact a game, but it seems we can't be bothered, or even we don't need to sink that low.

    Maybe we need to do away with "protect our young"attitudes and ditch a load of the free-loaders, and put some of the youngsters in. WE have Max Bird who did really well against Barnsley, yet he will no doubt be in the wilderness for the next few weeks. Rubbish. Each match is just a game of football, and it is suprising just how easily young kids take things in their stride. Unlike our own and subsequent generations, todays youth aren't brought up to bow and scrape to their seniors, and have a much more "can do" and "I'm good enough" attitude. Young Elsnick has shown a lot of potential, so what do we do? Send him out on loan. No. Give him a go in our team, and see what he can achieve.

    It might not produce results, but it sure as hell would give the prima donnas a severe rump-kicking, which it seem they definitely need.

    Craig Ramage came out with another of his regular "observations" on Saturday, which is that we need 7 to 10 games to get up to match speed and match sharpness. Why? They have had all pre-season to do that, and most of the other teams we have played, and this applies to previous seasons as well, are already up to speed and hit the pitch running from game 1. Why can't we?
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    KeoghKeogh

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 6:48 pm

    I agree with your sentiment but not your conclusion

    Max Bird got a lot of support from GT at Barnsley and also to a lesser extent Wisdom. It clearly made a huge difference to yound Max.

    Given the lack of support that Max Lowe and to a greater extent Cyrus Christie got when they played fr the first team, young Max is better away rom the current first team and the negative influences that exist within it.

    It would serve no-one any benefit for young Max to become the latest scapegoat and sadly I think that this would be the likely outcome under the current regime.
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    rjrules71

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by rjrules71 on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 6:49 pm

    This is no time for calling for the managers head IMHO, he has done as well as could be expected thus far.

    We are a mid-table team like it or lump it and with the points gleaned that is exactly where we sit.

    The job for GR is barely begun so let's get rid of that sort of madness before it gets hold.

    We have a young forthright man in GR with some potential to improve himself and us, this foolishness that has people thinking we are contenders needs cutting out.

    Given time and some £££ we will gradually see some improvement of that I am convinced.

    During this period we will play amazing one week and rubbish the next it is inevitable, once that pattern calms and we can learn to get a goal up away from home, then defend like Spartans and nick some points we will just have to be calm.

    Already we have seen things that auger well for the future and for at least this season and possibly next as well, I am happy to take small steps and build solidly.


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    MadAmster

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by MadAmster on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 8:22 am

    Saw the 1st half live. Not seen the 2nd yet as we were out at a do......

    4th minute. Not seen a replay yet but on 1st and only sight I doubted it was a free kick never mind a yellow. He played, and got, the ball. I look forward to seeing a replay of it. That card removed the bite from BJ's play and weakened our midfield which didn't help.

    17th minute. Vydra chases a through ball. A defender gets a head start but Vyds is going past him. The player sticks out an arm and veers left, away from the ball with the ball not within playing distance. That is a deliberate foul. The defender was the last man (part from the keeper). He should have been given a red card. There will be those who say red for such an inoccuous incident is OTT and they might have a point but the fact remains that the Laws of the game say he should have gone.

    Even if I got that 4th minute incident wrong, I am right on this one. Nowhere in the Laws is there a difference made between where on the pitch a foul occurs........ most referees appear to forget this and most other people seem to have the opinion that a foul has to be several times worse in the penalty area than elsewhere on the pitch to warrant being given.

    Had they lost the defender in the 17th minute you have a totally different game on your hands.

    Having said that, the red card wasn't given and the rest is history. When we went 1 up we possibly just about deserved it. We then sank into our zonal defence and they loved it. They showed us the same slinky passing game we love to watch. Movement off the ball. 1 touch passing finding the intended recipient and creating chances. We were still up at HT thanks to Carson...... again.

    Reading several reports, it would seem that, after the 2-1, we had 4 "chances of varying degrees but didn't put them away. They then hit us with two more late on.

    If I could ask GR just 1 question post match it would be "why did we not press Bristol the way we did Hull in the previous League game?"

    There, IMO, lies the crux of the matter. It's not that we can't. It's because we are playing to orders not to. It can't be anything else as GR is close enough to get the message onto the pitch at any time in the game. he also gets 15 minutes at HT to drill it into the players.

    Choose the fromation, the players and the tactics and stick to them, home and away. Stop backing off. Stop this zonal nonsense. Get into em and fishcake em off!!

    2nd half report later in the week.
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    bramhallram

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by bramhallram on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 9:53 am

    MadAmster wrote:
    If I could ask GR just 1 question post match it would be "why did we not press Bristol the way we did Hull in the previous League game?" There, IMO, lies the crux of the matter. It's not that we can't. It's because we are playing to orders not to.
    If this is true then GR has a lot of explaining to do. He talks a good game in his RamsTV interviews but it's not happening on the pitch.

    In his interview after the Bristol game he looked like a very frustrated man, at a loss to explain how we can play so well against Hull and so badly against Bristol.

    .
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    valakari

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by valakari on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 10:06 am

    Home or away..why does that matter. Play our way and if we have better players and a bit of luck we will win more than we lose. This hard to beat mentality should be left to the teams with poor players who scrap for their lives. Personally I think Gary Rowett needs to realise that we are not little Burton or a Birmingham City..and change his thought process..otherwise we are in danger of becoming one of them. The difference then is that we don't have those sort of players..our players like to play...
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    Barnstaple Ram

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by Barnstaple Ram on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:41 pm

    KeoghKeogh wrote:On transfers and on alternative captains.

    I've said on here before that I thought that giving GR the pre-season job of sorting transfers (and giving it to him quite late after Rush..) could have been a problem. He obviously had a long list of players; he got some of them. Other than the lad from Brum, he no doubt had others who would have suited his system well. GR opbviously wanted more players out too. To judge GR now is unfair. He'll need more success in the Jan window.   I think that he'll get this season and probably only part of next if we carry on like SUFC and BCFC. This is also unfair; but likely IMHO.

    Alternative captains; DT and the tv think that it is Davies- he's doing the post match for most games. Wisdom looks a class apart when he is at his best. Whether he can captain I dunno; but he'd be worth a try. George Thorne is captain material if he can become fit enough. I'd be interested in seeing how Huddlestone would do as captain too. For Davies, Wisdom (in particular), Thorne and Huddlestone the job might actually improve their performance.

    I'll discount Baird as I don't see him as a regular starter. If he is, he'd also be worth a go.

    So, no shortage of alternatives to Keogh a captain

    Not sure anyone can say Thorne is captain material as never seen him do the job.

    I would go with Davies myself
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    valakari

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by valakari on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 6:45 pm

    I would get in a captain. The lad from Middlesboro..Grant Leadbitter. Obviously won't be until January
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    bramhallram

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by bramhallram on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 9:55 pm

    valakari wrote:I would get in a captain. The lad from Middlesboro..Grant Leadbitter. Obviously won't be until January

    Good call. Just the sort of no-nonsense midfielder we need.

    Weren't we linked with him this summer ?

    .
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    SawleyRam

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by SawleyRam on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 11:16 pm

    I'm sure GR knows who he needs, (Kieftenbeld proved that) but the question lingers as to how many of the target transfers that were available wanted to come here anyway? Derby is not the Midlands equivalent of a vibrant London in a young person's eyes.

    I'm sure Rowett will have others targeted for the January window but let's not forget the vultures of this game (agents) also have a big say in any transfers and if the deal does not suit them as well it will get turned down.

    Hurdles are there to be overcome but sometimes they are set too high to start with financially and physically.
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    valakari

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by valakari on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 12:37 am

    Kieftenbeld can't get in a poor Birmingham team. Leadbitter has been captain of a promotion team..no brainer in the difference!
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    SawleyRam

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by SawleyRam on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 5:18 am

    valakari wrote:Kieftenbeld can't get in a poor Birmingham team. Leadbitter has been captain of a promotion team..no brainer in the difference!

    I can't argue with that sentiment Val but what I was trying to explain was the fact that if we know that so does GR.

    We don't know if Leadbitter was sounded out, his agent was sounded out or even the club concerned was sounded out or even if Middlesbrough didn't want to sell or the deal wasn't right for the agent or even if the player himself didn't want to move.

    There are so many individual factors to a transfer that we will never know.

    P.S. There was even the sorry example of Ian Storey-Moore who was paraded on the pitch on a match day as our new signing and then changed his mind because his wife wanted to live in Manchester! He then signed for United. Even the great Brian Clough wasn't immune from signings that never was!
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    bramhallram

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by bramhallram on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 10:42 am

    SawleyRam wrote:
    valakari wrote:Kieftenbeld can't get in a poor Birmingham team. Leadbitter has been captain of a promotion team..no brainer in the difference!

    I can't argue with that sentiment Val but what I was trying to explain was the fact that if we know that so does GR.

    We don't know if Leadbitter was sounded out, his agent was sounded out or even the club concerned was sounded out or even if Middlesbrough didn't want to sell or the deal wasn't right for the agent or even if the player himself didn't want to move.

    There are so many individual factors to a transfer that we will never know.

    P.S. There was even the sorry example of Ian Storey-Moore who was paraded on the pitch on a match day as our new signing and then changed his mind because his wife wanted to live in Manchester! He then signed for United. Even the great Brian Clough wasn't immune from signings that never was!

    I remember it well, Sawley. He was under his wife's thumb, and from the minute Matt Busby turned up at his house with flowers for his wife he was always going to Manchester. Sadly for him he wasn't there long before he picked up a bad injury that finished his career.

    I bet Cloughie had mixed feelings about that.

    .
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    MadAmster

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by MadAmster on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 12:44 pm

    valakari wrote:Kieftenbeld can't get in a poor Birmingham team. Leadbitter has been captain of a promotion team..no brainer in the difference!

    Kieftenbeld didn't fit in 'Arry's plans. Not 'Arry's type of player. GR knows him because he played him and the lad got very good reviews when he played under GR.

    We sold Hughes because he didn't fit in GR's plans. Doesn't suddenly mean Hughesy is crap.
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    valakari

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by valakari on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 5:18 pm

    No..but Hughes isn't in Watfords plans either...bet he wonders why he signed for them Bang head
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    valakari

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by valakari on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 5:21 pm

    Btw George Thorne went off last night after less than 15 minutes....i have no idea why but fingers crossed
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    Jackal

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by Jackal on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 6:07 pm

    valakari wrote:Btw George Thorne went off last night after less than 15 minutes....i have no idea why but fingers crossed
    I read somewhere it was due to illness.
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    valakari

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by valakari on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 12:27 am

    At least Bristol City beat Stoke tonight..shows they are half decent...
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    SawleyRam

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    Re: Bristol City 4-1 Derby reports and comments

    Post by SawleyRam on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 12:17 pm

    valakari wrote:At least Bristol City beat Stoke tonight..shows they are half decent...

    Yes Bristol City are in decent form ATM but what worried me about our result against them was manner of the the abject surrender after they equalised.

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