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    Loughborough Ram

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    ridiculous!

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 5:28 pm

    I'm glad that I have no interest in womens football as it looks as though the English womens game is killing itself before it even got going. Mark Sampson the England manager has been forced out after claims of racism, which he strenuosly denies and having been cleared twice by the FA, and in addition many of the players distancing themselves from these claims.

    The fact that this claim was made by a player who Sampson left out of the squad just shows the power of the racism campaigners in modern life in England.
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    MadAmster

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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by MadAmster on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 5:35 pm

    Instant gratification, self enriching, blame everybody except yourself culture. My kids don't work that way and I don't think anybody else on here has brought their kids up that way.


    Last edited by MadAmster on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 7:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by SawleyRam on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 5:51 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:I'm glad that I have no interest in womens football as it looks as though the English womens game is killing itself before it even got going. Mark Sampson the England manager has been forced out after claims of racism, which he strenuosly denies and having been cleared twice by the FA, and in addition many of the players distancing themselves from these claims.

    The fact that this claim was made by a player who Sampson left out of the squad just shows the power of the racism campaigners in modern life in England.

    I'm sure I will be corrected if wrong but isn't the young lady involved a lawyer specialising  in racial equality? Of course that bit of her life would have no connection to the fact of being dropped from the team, would it?
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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by RRC on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 6:19 pm

    You may have jumped to conclusions a bit too quickly.

    Sampson's sacking was related earlier events when he was at Bristol City, so it
    seems he has something of a record for this -

    "Mark Sampson has been sacked as England women's manager following evidence
    of "inappropriate and unacceptable" behaviour in a previous role.

    "The Football Association says it has only just been made aware of details of the
    allegations made against Sampson when he was Bristol Academy boss."

    BBC Sport



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    Loughborough Ram

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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 7:30 pm

    I'd ask a couple of questions. Why weren't the FA aware of this 'allegation' when they appointed him? If this is serious why were there no charges? Who made them aware now, and why now?

    By the way RRC, he was found not guilty of racism TWICE, (for the same allegation), so he doesn't have "something of a record" because this is so far an undisclosed allegation that has mysterioysly appeared on the back of the recent 'disappointment' for the racism in sport campaigners.

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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by chicken on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 8:08 pm

    So he's a perv as well as a racist
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    Loughborough Ram

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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 8:14 pm

    Well he's not a racist because he was found not guilty and the FA have confirmed that he's done nothing illegal in this 'new' old allegation. So it sounds like he's not a perv either. Despite this I bet he never works in English football again.
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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by MadAmster on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 8:16 pm

    Racist charges disproven by the FA..... TWICE, the Bristol allegations, and they are no more than that at the moment, should be treated with innocent until proven guilty and I would have hoped posters on here would hold the same viewpoint and not stoop to name calling based on what are thus far unproven allegations.

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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by chicken on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 8:51 pm

    So he's not done anything wrong then? He's got the sack for nothing?

    You're all intimating that the player who accused him has ulterior motives, yet you're saying he is innocent until proven guilty. Sounds very hypocritical to me.
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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by mcsilks on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 12:52 am

    Not sure why the op has chosen the title 'ridiculous'! Do you condone a man making racist comments?

    The guy has clearly made racist comments about a player and for that, has left FA with only the one option. If he hadn't made the remarks, he wouldn't have lost his job. The FA are not going to release a successful manager on hearsay or rumour.

    You cannot make stupid remarks or behave in a manner unbefitting when you are in a high profile job.
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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by Stockport Ram on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 7:46 am

    The mere fact that a goalscoring non caucasian prompted the team celebration on Tuesday tells you all you need to know about the racism charges. 

    Even if that didn't convince you, then Eni Aluko's self satisfied post match tweets, combined with verbal support for Sampson from a mixed race player who said that it was the most supportive atmosphere she had ever worked in, should seal the deal.


    In this world of pc-ness, we wait for evidence in the second respect.

    If he had got "too close" to an under age academy player then fair enough. If she was 18, I wonder if the same decision would have been made had he academy boss been female?  I sincerely hope so - if PC-ism has any value.


    Last edited by Stockport Ram on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by RRC on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 8:03 am

    For a different view of the mess the FA has got into, please try the link below.

    The Professional Footballers’ Association has already described inquiry No 1
    as “not a genuine search for the truth” and “a sham which was not designed
    to establish the truth but intended to protect Mark Sampson.”

    Inquiry No 2 has led to calls from Kick it Out and the PFA for the process to
    start again, with a new barrister in place.

    Perhaps No 3 inquiry will actually try to investigate properly and interview all
    of the witnesses. If it doesn't, the House of Commons' committee may do the
    job for them.

    I'll keep an open mind until there is a more honest search for the truth.

    Mark Sampson departs amid a flurry of FA buck-passing and confusion


    Last edited by RRC on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 8:06 am; edited 1 time in total



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    Loughborough Ram

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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 8:05 am

    mcsilks wrote:Not sure why the op has chosen the title 'ridiculous'! Do you condone a man making racist comments?

    The guy has clearly made racist comments about a player and for that, has left FA with only the one option. If he hadn't made the remarks, he wouldn't have lost his job. The FA are not going to release a successful manager on hearsay or rumour.

    You cannot make stupid remarks or behave in a manner unbefitting when you are in a high profile job.

    Why do you say that he has clearly made racist remarks? He has been investigated TWICE and fpund not guilty TWICE. Your attitude is the reason that heis unlikely to work in England again, because despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary you still believe he did it. Unbelievable!
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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by RRC on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 8:14 am

    Loughborough Ram wrote:
    mcsilks wrote:Not sure why the op has chosen the title 'ridiculous'! Do you condone a man making racist comments?

    The guy has clearly made racist comments about a player and for that, has left FA with only the one option. If he hadn't made the remarks, he wouldn't have lost his job. The FA are not going to release a successful manager on hearsay or rumour.

    You cannot make stupid remarks or behave in a manner unbefitting when you are in a high profile job.

    Why do you say that he has clearly made racist remarks? He has been investigated TWICE and fpund not guilty TWICE. Your attitude is the reason that heis unlikely to work in England again, because despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary you still believe he did it. Unbelievable!

    He has NOT been found 'not guilty' because there hasn't been a serious inquiry
    that interviewed all the witnesses with the aim of finding the truth.

    The PFA has condemned the FA's two inquiries as shams and the House of Commons'
    committee doesn't seem to be convinced by them either.

    I don't know whether Sampson is a racist or not from the FA's efforts and nor do you.

    I'll keep an open mind until there is a proper inquiry.



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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by MadAmster on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 8:17 am

    chicken wrote:So he's not done anything wrong then? He's got the sack for nothing?

    You're all intimating that the player who accused him has ulterior motives, yet you're saying he is innocent until proven guilty. Sounds very hypocritical to me.  

    Not me. I have only said that he should be innocent until proven guilty.

    Racist? Found NOT GUILTY twice by the FA. It appears a second player has now decided to corroborate Eni's story. Again, that needs investigating before we start having a go at the coach.

    Are there other racist allegations? I haven't seen them anywhere and, as others have said, other non-Caucasian players have said how well treated they were.....

    The Bristol allegations? I haven't seen what they entail as the reports do not contain detail so, apart from innocent until........., I won't comment on them.

    As for the FA, They were of aware of "Bristolgate" when they employed him in the first place, they investigated and decided that there was nothing to prevent him being employed in a coaching role. They now seem to think otherwise. If the allegations were of a sexual nature with someone U16 then he would have been investigated by the police long ago. Sex with a minor aged 16 or 17 would have seen him sacked. Sex with an adult? Still an unwise move if you are the boss of the other party and should have seen him at least admonished, possibly suspended/fined and maybe even sacked. he wasn't so we are ALL guessing what he may or may not have done.

    So, to avoid any accusations of being an MCP or a hypocrite, as long as nothing has been proven, we should refrain from labelling Sampson anything other than a coach. Once the FACTS are out there, we can make a decision as whether the FA was right or wrong. Sex with a minor (U18), if that was what it was, should have led to at least a suspension and more (sacked and the police involved) if the minor was U16. So, I am not acquitting the man, merely advocating a "fair trial".
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    valakari

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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by valakari on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 8:53 am

    By the phrasing 'unacceptable and inappropriate behaviour ..this could be anything from being drunk at training, having a relationship with a player, dressing in the wrong attire, supporting the wrong team...the list is endless....lets wait and see if they tell us the real reason rather than hide it behind generic terms..
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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by SawleyRam on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 12:12 pm

    Reading others opinions on here left me with mixed feelings until it dawned on me where the real blame lies.

    It is reported the F.A committee that appointed him were aware of the Bristol  allegations but said it was no obstacle to the door of the England job and duly appointed Samson. After outstanding success in his role it now appears that those allegations are an obstacle, confused? So am I.

    Being a cynic I then wondered why the U turn by that very same committee who appointed him, after all they cleared him of the more recent allegations.  Did he demand a substantial rise in wages after his success that they did not want to pay?
    I have no knowledge one way or another but I have a feeling that there is a sub-plot involved that we will never know of.

    But let's not forget this is the very same F.A. committee who appointed Sam Allardyce to the senior England role knowing a murky background existed but still ratified his appointment then did a U turn after 1 match.

    This F.A. committee of old fuddie duddies should be charged will bringing the game into disrepute after a succession of poor decisions, but who is there to charge them, the F.A?

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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by chicken on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 3:57 pm

    FA apologises to Eni Aluko & Drew Spence after independent report concludes both were subjected to discriminatory remarks by Mark Sampson

    Hmmm ....
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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by Jackal on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 4:42 pm

    chicken wrote:FA apologises to Eni Aluko & Drew Spence after independent report concludes both were subjected to discriminatory remarks by Mark Sampson

    Hmmm ....
    Well that makes it all better then. How big of the F.A. to apologise for not being thorough in their initial investigation.
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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 5:24 pm

    The player had an interesting thing to say about the FA and actions that she alleged that they told her to take in relation to money that she was allegedly owed by the FA.

    In response, a member of the panel asked her whether she felt that she was being blackmailed by FA to keep quiet (the implication being - if she wanted to receive the balance of monies owing from the FA to her.)

    It will be interesting to see how the FA choose to respond to this claim.

    I though that the head of the FA looked decidely unwell as he sought to sidestep the questions / deflect them to his HR colleague.
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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by Stockport Ram on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 12:50 am

    I am sorry Chicken, but I still believe that Eni Aluko had an agenda.


    She has not been chosen in the latest England squad - on merit - chosen by a manager (male or female) whom absolutely everyone respects.


    She is very intelligent. Sampson has clearly said some very silly, possibly racist (but not proven) things.

    Is it at all possible that she simply could not come to terms with the passage of time, after a century of caps, and accepted that she is no longer good enough to make the international squad on merit?

    It does not excuse the idiocy of Sampson's remarks, but it may, bearing in mind her emotional and non partisan twitter response to recent international success, provide some insight to her basic motive.
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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by MadAmster on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 8:55 am

    It is entirely feasible that any improper comments and any responses from the target of those comments are totally divorced from the target not being picked for the national side. It is just as feasible that they are totally related. The big problem with discussion about it is that none of us know, nor will we ever know.

    No smoke without fire? Maybe.

    She wasn't considered good enough anymore? Maybe.

    The only truth is that any racist comments or bullying are/were wrong and should not happen.
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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by RRC on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 9:13 am

    Stockport Ram wrote:I am sorry Chicken, but I still believe that Eni Aluko had an agenda.

    What about the other witnesses the FA conveniently forgot to interview - did they all have agendas?
    What about Sampson's previous form at Bristol?

    The more I read about this, the more it looks like a clumsy cover up job that went wrong - deservedly.
    The Players' Union certainly takes that view.

    What do you make of this?

    “I had one meeting with Martin Glenn and he said if I wrote a statement that the Football Association
    is not institutionally racist, they would release the payment. I believed that bordered on blackmail.
    I categorically refused to write any statement. It is not for me to say that the FA is not institutionally
    racist. For Martin Glenn to say I should say that in order to get a payment I was contractually agreed
    to is appalling.”

    Of course, Glenn denied this, but she still hasn't been paid. Clarke has, at last, said she should now
    be paid, but why the long delay if the FA weren't trying to use it to shut her up?

    I don't swallow all the claims of racism that I read about - some sound very dubious - but this case
    looks all too believable, given the supporting evidence.



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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by rob on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 2:25 pm

    and whoever the fa choose to run them they always use billy smarts recruitment agency (baggy trousers and custard pies a speciality)
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    Re: ridiculous!

    Post by Stockport Ram on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 7:20 pm

    RRC wrote:
    Stockport Ram wrote:I am sorry Chicken, but I still believe that Eni Aluko had an agenda.

    What about the other witnesses the FA conveniently forgot to interview - did they all have agendas?
    What about Sampson's previous form at Bristol?

    The more I read about this, the more it looks like a clumsy cover up job that went wrong - deservedly.
    The Players' Union certainly takes that view.

    What do you make of this?

    “I had one meeting with Martin Glenn and he said if I wrote a statement that the Football Association
    is not institutionally racist, they would release the payment. I believed that bordered on blackmail.
    I categorically refused to write any statement. It is not for me to say that the FA is not institutionally
    racist. For Martin Glenn to say I should say that in order to get a payment I was contractually agreed
    to is appalling.”

    Of course, Glenn denied this, but she still hasn't been paid. Clarke has, at last, said she should now
    be paid, but why the long delay if the FA weren't trying to use it to shut her up?

    I don't swallow all the claims of racism that I read about - some sound very dubious - but this case
    looks all too believable, given the supporting evidence.


    There are two very separate issues here IMHO.

    1. Sampson's comments - foolish at best, racist in the opinion of some, but again he has been found (this time, I believe, by a female judge), not to be an inherently racist man.


    2. The incompetent cover up attempts by the FA, noticeably Clarke and Glenn, which look, feel and smell like racism.


    I reiterate that a mixed race experienced female international has praised the openness and positivity of Sampson's managerial style,  and the scorer of one of the six goals who instigated the pitchside celebrations was also of mixed race.  This doesn't sound like he is inherently racist to me, otherwise neither of the above would have happened.


    Clarke and Glenn, however, made premeditated attempts to close ranks and in effect "pay someone off".  No wonder Ms Aluko felt offended.  They are the buffoons who should lose their jobs.


    Just a final thought - what does Ms Aluko stand to gain with the removal of Sampson?  Possibly her international career resurrected.  What do those who have praised him stand to gain?  Nothing.


    Her bitter tweets towards her ex "team mates" after the 6-0 win tells you all you need to know about how much of a "team" player Aluko was. This from the BBC website:

    "She was also critical of England's players for running to celebrate with Sampson after a goal in their 6-0 win over Russia in September, tweeting: 'For the most together team in the world tonight's 'message' only shows a level of disrespect that represents division and selfish action.' "


    I'm very tempted to mention the words "pot" and "kettle", but I'd better not in case someone gets offended....

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    Re: ridiculous!

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