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    Formations

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    Barnstaple Ram

    Rams Fan Since Rams Fan Since : 1973
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    Formations

    Post by Barnstaple Ram on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 12:44 pm

    Is there too much emphasis on team formations these days and in particular the wording of them

    When I was playing most teams played 4-4-2 . This was often with 1 of the central midfielder playing a more holding role to the other (Williams & Gregory) and one forward being the target man for the other to run off

    Now teams still play the same mix of players but it is called 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-2-1-2 (as those that play FIFA would say)

    Our goal at Brentford was scored in open play by a player playing a holding midfield role yet he was up beyond the strikers

    Take Sunday for another example
    Carson
    Wisdom , Keogh, Davies, Forsyth
    Leadley Huddlestone
    Lawrence , Vydra, Russell
    Nugent

    What is the difference in saying 4-4-2
    Carson
    Wisdom , Keogh, Davies, Forsyth
    Lawrence Leadley Huddlestone Russell
    Nugent , Vydra


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    MadAmster

    Rams Fan Since Rams Fan Since : 0
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    Re: Formations

    Post by MadAmster on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 2:03 pm

    Barnstaple Ram wrote:Is there too much emphasis on team formations these days and in particular the wording of them

    When I was playing most teams played 4-4-2 . This was often with 1 of the central midfielder playing a more holding role to the other (Williams & Gregory) and one forward being the target man for the other to run off

    Now teams still play the same mix of players but it is called 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-2-1-2 (as those that play FIFA would say)

    Our goal at Brentford was scored in open play by a player playing a holding midfield role  yet he was up beyond the strikers

    Take Sunday for another example
    Carson
    Wisdom , Keogh, Davies, Forsyth
    Leadley Huddlestone
    Lawrence , Vydra, Russell
    Nugent

    What is the difference in saying 4-4-2
    Carson
    Wisdom , Keogh, Davies, Forsyth
    Lawrence Leadley Huddlestone Russell
    Nugent , Vydra



    IMO, that 2nd lineup meaning that, when not in possession, we would have put up 2 banks of 4 would have stifled them and they woudn't have played the better football in the first half and wouldn't have had more shots than us, more shots on target than us......

    There is more fluidity in a system today than there used to be. In possession the 1-4-4-2 morphs into a 1-4-2-4. If you have the oppo pressed into their own final third you can push a full back further up the park, push one of the 2 central MFs further forward etc.

    If it's an even game, when you attack you morph to 1-4-3-3, one of the wide MFs becomes a winger and the other stays back in MF.

    You have a basic style or formation but then you add in all manner of variations which you will (or should) work on, on the training ground. Full backs have always had "permission" to bomb on but there was always the unwritten rule that when they go, the half back drops back. Same with half backs and wingers..... There is, and has, always been movement between the lines. It's wht the rest of the team do when somene bombs on that makes it a good move or not. Keep sufficient people in a defensive position.

    The great difference these days, I think, is that a winger always knew the full back was his man and, if he bombed on, he was expected to get back and cover. The same appled to CF/CH and Inside forward/Half back. You had your man. Now, it appears, nobody has a man, they have a zone. We are so good at marking those zones that not a single one has scored against us this season..... unfortunately, players left unmarked have scored against us.

    Derby's problem appears to be a lack of positional sense or maybe positional discipline. How often was Fozzy ahead of Lawrence (or JR when Tom and JR swapped wings for a few minutes)? He displayed far too gung ho an attitude for my liking and I would hope GR reigns him in.
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    rob

    Rams Fan Since Rams Fan Since : 1968
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    Re: Formations

    Post by rob on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 11:50 am

    totally agree about zonal marking amster - mark players - stop players scoring - and everyone will know who is doing what - big men should be marked by big men, quick by quick, the rest should have been worked on in training. If a player drifts too far away you communicate and swap, swapping back when he is near.

    Not rocket science just common sense - always worked in every team I played in - as long as people talked - and our lack of leadership on the pitch has been mentioned in far too many posts - was hoping Davies/Hudders were the answer but looks like GT (for the 3/4 games he may play before he breaks again) is the closest thing we have.

    Still being positive we have not lost for a while and Wendies are not pulling up any trees - onwards and upwards - and lets hope Russell can maintain his form.
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    Barnstaple Ram

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    Re: Formations

    Post by Barnstaple Ram on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 12:17 pm

    My point was that what is the actual difference between 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2

    If we are listed as 4-2-3-1 do the 2 wide attacking players actually defend slightly in front of the midfielders? No they would still track back as necessary

    I actually put the blame on computer games which as bought about the use of more and more variations on what is still essentially a 4-4-2
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    MadAmster

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    Re: Formations

    Post by MadAmster on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 1:07 pm

    Barnstaple Ram wrote:My point was that what is the actual difference between 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2

    If we are listed as 4-2-3-1 do the 2 wide attacking players actually defend slightly in front of the midfielders? No they would still track back as necessary

    I actually put the blame on computer games which as bought about the use of more and more variations on what is still essentially a 4-4-2

    I suppose the answer to your question is that in a 1-4-4-2, you play 2 strikers and in a 1-4-2-3-1 you play just the one. As you correctly say, the 2 wide player of the 3 defend when we aren't in possession and take up attacking roles when we are. The central player of the 3 is an attacking midfielder, aka a number 10 in modern parlance.

    At least that is how I have always understood it. If anybody can put me right I will be more than happy to be so put.

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