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    Video Assist

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    Venice Ram

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    Video Assist

    Post by Venice Ram on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 3:09 pm

    Last week I watched the Bundesliga game between Stuttgart and Koln. Midway through the 2nd half, the ref awarded a very dubious penalty to Koln, but then drew the outline of a square with his fingers, which is when I realized that Video Assist was being used ( Duh ! ). After what seemed like an hour of talking to the VA officials then going over to the screen on the sideline, the ref reversed his decision. The delay was probably 3-4 minutes even though it seemed longer, but they arrived at the correct decision.

    So, I then went to the Bundesliga website to read about VA, and how it was being applied. Even now I am still confused as to who is in control of the game, who contacts who and when, and who has the ultimate authority. You might think that " the referee " would be the answer to all of the above, but don't jump to conclusions.

    If this is being trialed in Germany, how long before it is adopted across Europe. I have not read that it will be used in Russia, but I have to believe that it will be, even in a diluted state.

    Your thoughts please.
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    Jackal

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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by Jackal on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 3:30 pm

    As the system is used more frequently it should get better and faster to make a decision. Other sports such as rugby, tennis and cricket use similar technology without it causing too much disruption. The decision on when it is used should be down to the referee, but then again, with the poor excuses we tend to have calling themselves referees these days they'd still contrive to balls it up and make a meal out of even the simplest of decisions.
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    MadAmster

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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by MadAmster on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 3:39 pm

    The knee jerk reaction is to say that 3 to 4 minute delays simply aren't on. Have 5 or more of those a game and fans may well miss their last public transport home.

    Then you look at what is wrong with the game, the use of technology will help reduce it. The question is, how do you utlise it. As it stands now, goalmouth technology tells the ref immediately if the ball has crossed the line and that a goal should be awarded. Then it becomes messy.

    Use it for offside decisions? There would be so many challenges, a 3 o'clock kick off would end at 6:30.

    If a ref isn't sure of a decision he can ask the video ref. Give a max # of times he can use it?
    Linesman not sure? give the benefit to the attacker on offside as he is supposed to do anyway.

    Foul inside or outside the box? Costs 10 seconds and shouldn't prove problematic.

    Was it a foul/penalty or not? There were possibly a dozen occasions last Sunday when I thought Madley got it wrong.

    Red/yellow cards? also something that could be up for appeal to the VR.

    Ultimately, there will have to be limits or games will last for ever. I would limit it to:

    1. Was it a goal or not (ball over the line)
    2. Ref has a small # of appeals to the VR when he is unsure
    3. Manager has 2, max 3, appeals over a game. If he is right he doesn't lose the appeal

    For the rest, VR usage would IMO be OTT.

    I would then set up a panel of refs who review possible contentious issues from the previous weekend's games in which they could award cards incorrectly not given and rescind "wrong" cards.

    The above would be enough to reign in excesses by players without slowing the game down for an unacceptable length of time. It would also stop players being able to "get away with it".

    Now, where's that sofa for me to hide behind...........
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    bramhallram

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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by bramhallram on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 5:21 pm

    If the Video Assist is only used for 'did the ball cross the line' decisions I can see it being adopted at all levels. There aren't many of these incidents per match so it won't cause major delays, and it leaves the referee in charge of all other decisions.

    Mind you, that may not be such a good thing with referees like Attwell and the Madley brothers.

    Rage
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    Venice Ram

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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by Venice Ram on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 6:55 pm

    According to the Bundesliga website, there are 4 areas when VA comes into play.

    Goal- where there any infractions, handball, offside, etc.

    Penalty - was it ?

    Red cards - should there be one ?

    Mistaken identity.

    In all cases it appears that the VA contacts the referee, not the other way round. In the incident I referenced, the ref awarded a penalty and then VA kicked in. However, if the ref misses an incident, or deems an offence not worthy of a penalty, the VA can effectively over-rule that decision. Perhaps the referee will be renamed as Video Assist assistant.

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    rjrules71

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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by rjrules71 on Thu 19 Oct 2017, 7:27 pm

    Have to say I am totally against

    The whole point of a game is being missed, some of the best games I have watched have had dodgy refs/linesmen.
    The crowds get riled up and infuriated, the atmosphere gets better and better and any mistakes are normally levelled out during the course of a game/ season. It makes for massive talking points in and around the game.

    The only people who really want this are the big mardy girls blouses who populate todays game and cant take a couple of knock backs.
    I can just see my old football teacher listening to this sort of bleating about the ref, he would have sent them away with a stinging earhole.

    Bunch of bloddy pansies nowadays, surrounding the refs mob handed at every opportunity.
    FFS take your medicine, shut up and get on with the sodding game!
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    SawleyRam

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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by SawleyRam on Fri 20 Oct 2017, 9:13 am

    I agree with RJ's view but what has bought the game we love to this point to start with? Cheating players, plain and simple, yes referees will make mistakes and some will be better than others but the need of VA in today's game lay solely at the feet of the players themselves.

    The amount of  money in the game has bought the greed for more by individual players who will do anything for financial reward as well as congratulations from team mates and manager for cheating.

    Read the above for athletics, cycling and a host other other well rewarded sports.

    Rant over!
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    New England Ram
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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by New England Ram on Fri 20 Oct 2017, 11:14 am

    I'm with RJ and Sawl.
    All this crap and pressure on the refs has come around due to money.
    You start with just reviewing one thing and eventually it will be ten things.
    Believe me I live in the land of video reviews where people are actually beginning to get sick of it.
    Leave the bloody game alone it's bad enough that the game itself can be played at obscure hours and days rather than 3pm on a Saturday.
    Next it will be Red card reviews sponsored by Hallmark Cards.
    Fu** That !



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    MadAmster

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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by MadAmster on Fri 20 Oct 2017, 12:14 pm

    I'm all for reviews and unintrusive help.

    In Holland, all the pro clubs have goalline technology to help determine whether the ball has crossed the line between the posts and is a goal. The ref gets an immediate signal on his watch if the ball has crossed the line. I can't see this being contentious to anyone.

    As I said in my earlier post, I wouldn't be opposed to limited use of the Video Ref. I would prefer it if the reviews were done post match at FA/FL HQ with a panel of refs who review any possibly contentious iincidents from a game.
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    Barnstaple Ram

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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by Barnstaple Ram on Fri 20 Oct 2017, 12:29 pm

    For me

    Goal line technology - yes the ball going over the line is a fact not an opinion, would be happy with all ball out of play if technology could work

    Checking if foul inside or outside once ref has decided a foul (no reversal of decision if not a foul)

    Managers being allowed appeals - no never, they would become part of the tactics of game
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    KeoghKeogh

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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Fri 20 Oct 2017, 6:03 pm

    I'ts either competent officials or video technology... so, video technology then! It doesn't seem possible to get the first.
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    New England Ram
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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by New England Ram on Fri 20 Oct 2017, 10:45 pm

    I don’t think the refs are any less competent than they were 40 years ago.
    It’s the scrutiny and pressure they are under from tv analyst geezers and the media that’s the problem.



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    DavesaRam

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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by DavesaRam on Fri 20 Oct 2017, 11:28 pm

    New England Ram wrote:I don’t think the refs are any less competent than they were 40 years ago.
    It’s the scrutiny and pressure they are under from tv analyst geezers and the media that’s the problem.

    Madley, Madley and Atwell?
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    valakari

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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by valakari on Sat 21 Oct 2017, 1:15 am

    Spot on Dave.
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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by New England Ram on Sat 21 Oct 2017, 2:23 am

    DavesaRam wrote:
    New England Ram wrote:I don’t think the refs are any less competent than they were 40 years ago.
    It’s the scrutiny and pressure they are under from tv analyst geezers and the media that’s the problem.

    Madley, Madley and Atwell?

    If they are bad for us that means they were good for someone else.
    Ask Leeds about Ray Tinkler !



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    MadAmster

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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by MadAmster on Sat 21 Oct 2017, 9:29 am

    Refs unfairly treated by the press and TV? Maybe so BUT TV replays or not, I don't thnk, based solely on seeing them live, that there is a single poster on here who would not hold a very poor opinion of the Madley brothers and Atwell due to no more than their total apparent lack of knowledge of the game. They all KNOW the Laws of the game but their application of them is, IMO, very poor and it seems, >90% of the time, to be in favour of the opposition.
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    Stockport Ram

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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by Stockport Ram on Sat 21 Oct 2017, 10:17 am

    DavesaRam wrote:
    New England Ram wrote:I don’t think the refs are any less competent than they were 40 years ago.
    It’s the scrutiny and pressure they are under from tv analyst geezers and the media that’s the problem.

    Madley, Madley and Atwell?



    Sounds like a firm of solicitors.... they have robbed us enough between them.
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    New England Ram
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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by New England Ram on Sat 21 Oct 2017, 5:43 pm

    MadAmster wrote:Refs unfairly treated by the press and TV? Maybe so BUT TV replays or not, I don't thnk, based solely on seeing them live, that there is a single poster on here who would not hold a very poor opinion of the Madley brothers and Atwell due to no more than their total apparent lack of knowledge of the game. They all KNOW the Laws of the game but their application of them is, IMO, very poor and it seems, >90% of the time, to be in favour of the opposition.

    Honestly Ammy...like I always tell my kids.
    Don't put yourselves in a situation where a bad referee decision can kill you.
    Go out dominate the game and win it.



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    MadAmster

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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by MadAmster on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 8:51 am

    New England Ram wrote:
    MadAmster wrote:Refs unfairly treated by the press and TV? Maybe so BUT TV replays or not, I don't thnk, based solely on seeing them live, that there is a single poster on here who would not hold a very poor opinion of the Madley brothers and Atwell due to no more than their total apparent lack of knowledge of the game. They all KNOW the Laws of the game but their application of them is, IMO, very poor and it seems, >90% of the time, to be in favour of the opposition.

    Honestly Ammy...like I always tell my kids.
    Don't put yourselves in a situation where a bad referee decision can kill you.
    Go out dominate the game and win it.

    With you on that NER.......


    .... and you do and then the ref disallows 2 perfectly good goals in the last 5 minutes against your local rivals.

    The point of my post was aimed at a previous post blaming TV, press and pundits for our opinion of certain refs. I was explaining why, in certain cases at least, the triumvirate have little or no effect on our opinion of refs. We know they are poor refs.


    Last edited by MadAmster on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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    SawleyRam

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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by SawleyRam on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 9:34 am

    I always thought the man in the middle was responsible for all decisions but yesterday Russell ran though, was tripped, tried to stay on his feet, but the trip unbalanced him and he went down late and the  referee being near the incident decided to ignore the fact that another penalty could have been awarded waved play on, and the game did so, then after communication from the 4th official (who was a lot further away from the incident) the ref stopped the game awarded Wendies a free kick and booked Russell for diving.

    Even the linesman did not indicate anything but the ref changed his opinion after being told to by the 4th official. If there was any cause for  VA to be called into action this was it, it would have proved three officials wrong for one incident. (Probably why the system will not be incorporated!)
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    New England Ram
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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by New England Ram on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 2:19 pm

    For me reffing went backwards when they stopped letting refs ref the game the way they interpreted it but instead had to stick to the letter of the law issuing cards for sneezing and such things.
    Took the game right out of the refs control in my opinion.



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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by MadAmster on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 4:00 pm

    They have to know the Laws and they have to know the myriad of "helpful" clarifications that they get issued with.
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    Re: Video Assist

    Post by New England Ram on Sun 22 Oct 2017, 5:11 pm

    Yeah Ammy good or bad refs are always very low on my radar after any game.
    No matter how they have impacted it for or against my team.
    Every part of a 90 minute game (that which at the end of the day is not as important as today’s media would have you believe) is way over analyzed by both fans and so called experts imo.
    It’s nothing more than a business and cash cow now and I just think all perspective has been lost regarding what really matters.




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