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    Next season

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    KeoghKeogh

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    Next season

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 8:03 am

    Unless there is real change, we will risk facing relegation next season.

    Whilst the current brand of football is a problem, individual performances are a problem and transfer activity is a problem, first and foremost MM needs to accept that now is the time to say thanks and goodbye to Richard Keogh.

    We need a captain who is capable of leading our team when things aren't going well. Under Keogh we have had a side that cannot deal with any set backs. We have seen this time after time over several seasons.

    If MM is serious about building a younger squad that will challenge in the c/ship, a credible leader on the pitch will be even more important next season.

    This year is finished. Forget the playoffs and the prem.

    Give the captaincy to Davies or Wisdom now and play them together as CHs. Allow Keogh to see out the season on the sidelines with a 'troublesome groin strain' or something similar and then let him slip out of the door over the summer.



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    mcsilks

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    Re: Next season

    Post by mcsilks on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 8:34 am

    I'm about as optimistic as you sound for next season.

    I cannot think of a position on the pitch where I think we have any real strength or depth, and there are no real youngsters to speak of coming through the ranks.

    Even the boys on loan at Swindon are failing to get into their first team.

    We're stuck with the majority of our first team for at least another year and even if we were to try and offload them, we would have no takers.

    All very depressing. GR should have got out while his stock was still high.

    This season however, we still have a chance of the playoffs. But even then, what is the point.
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    Ram78

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    Re: Next season

    Post by Ram78 on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 8:35 am

    Won’t happen with his fat contract signed till 2021, think he needs dropping however

    To say relegation however is ludicrous! yes last night was awful but hopefully it will kick us on, I can’t see it but this will show Rowetts balls and the players
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    MadAmster

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    Re: Next season

    Post by MadAmster on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 8:44 am

    Well executed Black Cats game plan IMO aided and abetted by some Derby errors. Park a fleet of buses and hit on the break. Deflection for their first. My question is did Carson call for it as he had it covered. Second from a poor pass by Keogh helped by Davies being 10 yards back and 10 yards outside of where he should have been. Following the interception you have to credit Fletcher. 3rd goal a penalty when Fozzy didn't need to make the tackle especially with the "wrong" leg. 4th a complete mess up at a corner. Why nobody on the posts? A player on the far post would have had a decent chance of an interception. Our goal? Very well taken and one of the few times we actually went down the outside and crossed rather than trying to tippy tap through an overcrowded middle. That played into their hands. Did we really miss Hudds that much ? PNE will come at us and we will be more comfortable playing that game.
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    KeoghKeogh

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    Re: Next season

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 9:06 am

    MadAmster wrote:Well executed Black Cats game plan IMO aided and abetted by some Derby errors. Park a fleet of buses and hit on the break. Deflection for their first. My question is did Carson call for it as he had it covered. Second from a poor pass by Keogh helped by Davies being 10 yards back and 10 yards outside of where he should have been. Following the interception you have to credit Fletcher. 3rd goal a penalty when Fozzy didn't need to make the tackle especially with the "wrong" leg. 4th a complete mess up at a corner. Why nobody on the posts? A player on the far post would have had a decent chance of an interception. Our goal? Very well taken and one of the few times we actually went down the outside and crossed rather than trying to tippy tap through an overcrowded middle. That played into their hands. Did we really miss Hudds that much ? PNE will come at us and we will be more comfortable playing that game.

    Have a look at their 4th again - keep an eye on Keogh throughout.
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    MadAmster

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    Re: Next season

    Post by MadAmster on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 9:09 am

    KeoghKeogh wrote:
    MadAmster wrote:Well executed Black Cats game plan IMO aided and abetted by some Derby errors. Park a fleet of buses and hit on the break. Deflection for their first. My question is did Carson call for it as he had it covered. Second from a poor pass by Keogh helped by Davies being 10 yards back and 10 yards outside of where he should have been. Following the interception you have to credit Fletcher. 3rd goal a penalty when Fozzy didn't need to make the tackle especially with the "wrong" leg. 4th a complete mess up at a corner. Why nobody on the posts? A player on the far post would have had a decent chance of an interception. Our goal? Very well taken and one of the few times we actually went down the outside and crossed rather than trying to tippy tap through an overcrowded middle. That played into their hands. Did we really miss Hudds that much ? PNE will come at us and we will be more comfortable playing that game.

    Have a look at their 4th again - keep an eye on Keogh throughout.

    I will when the lowlights are posted on the OS. Whatever that might show, that won't negate the fact that a man on the far post would have helped.......
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    Angus1

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    Re: Next season

    Post by Angus1 on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:15 pm

    mcsilks wrote:I'm about as optimistic as you sound for next season.

    I cannot think of a position on the pitch where I think we have any real strength or depth, and there are no real youngsters to speak of coming through the ranks.

    Even the boys on loan at Swindon are failing to get into their first team.

    We're stuck with the majority of our first team for at least another year and even if we were to try and offload them, we would have no takers.

    All very depressing. GR should have got out while his stock was still high.

    This season however, we still have a chance of the playoffs. But even then, what is the point.

    I agree there is nothing coming through our system very likely to make the first team.

    There are always good players available in the Summer and Derby County is always an attractive location for players, for many reasons.

    I don't think Gary so far has done a bad job, still much to be done getting players in and out but it was always likely to be a 2 year job to right all the wrongs.

    He can't afford any more Jerome signings in the summer, that was a strange panic buy.

    chicken
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    Re: Next season

    Post by chicken on Sun 01 Apr 2018, 5:44 pm

    It will be exactly the same next year. Same players as most of them are still under contract but will be another year older. Our average age will be 30 and we will have the same shit left back and even worse the same shit captain.
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    New England Ram
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    Re: Next season

    Post by New England Ram on Sun 01 Apr 2018, 6:10 pm

    Easy to look at the under 23s and say nothing is coming through.
    But that’s a bunch of young lads on the same team.
    Take one or two and throw them in a team with more experience and you often see a different player.



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    KeoghKeogh

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    Re: Next season

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Sun 01 Apr 2018, 10:45 pm

    New England Ram wrote:Easy to look at the under 23s and say nothing is coming through.
    But that’s a bunch of young lads on the same team.
    Take one or two and throw them in a team with more experience and you often see a different player.

    If you look at the negative impact of the approach taken by our captain on the form of our younger / less confident players: Christie, Lowe and Forsyth (ie to blame them publically and theatrically on the pitch), any of our 23s that get brought in will need to be very strong indeed to avoid being dragged down when they become his next focus of blame.

    If GR is not prepared / not allowed to make the right decision regarding captaincy, bringing in players from the 23s may create more problems that it solves.

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    New England Ram
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    Re: Next season

    Post by New England Ram on Sun 01 Apr 2018, 11:55 pm

    KeoghKeogh wrote:
    New England Ram wrote:Easy to look at the under 23s and say nothing is coming through.
    But that’s a bunch of young lads on the same team.
    Take one or two and throw them in a team with more experience and you often see a different player.

    If you look at the negative impact of the approach taken by our captain on the form of our younger / less confident players: Christie, Lowe and Forsyth (ie to blame them publically and theatrically on the pitch), any of our 23s that get brought in will need to be very strong indeed to avoid being dragged down when they become his next focus of blame.

    If GR is not prepared / not allowed to make the right decision regarding captaincy, bringing in players from the 23s may create more problems that it solves.


    Counter argument to that is Hughes and Hendrick



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    asotrsott

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    Forsyth

    Post by asotrsott on Mon 02 Apr 2018, 6:19 am

    chicken wrote:It will be exactly the same next year. Same players as most of them are still under contract but will be another year older.  Our average age will be 30 and we will have the same shit left back and even worse the same shit captain.
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    asotrsott

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    Re: Next season

    Post by asotrsott on Mon 02 Apr 2018, 6:22 am

    Cant' we swap him for Bruce Forsyth his footwork was better?
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    MadAmster

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    Re: Next season

    Post by MadAmster on Mon 02 Apr 2018, 8:12 am

    Next season? Being the eternal optimist with some knowledge of the game I have yet to write this one off.

    I remember equally poor games that have been followed by successes throughout all my years of following the Rams. The home semi against Hull was awful. We won the away tie 2-0 and could easily have had the other 2 we needed to go through as well.

    Early 70s, Wendy away. We were top. They were rock bottom without a win in the opening 8 or 9 games (early season). We lost 1-0 there and hadn't won there since the 30s. It would be the mid 90s before we eventually broke that record. We went on to do well that season.

    We are still top 6. We have a game in hand on those around us. OK, that game is Cardiff but it's a game we are more likely to get something out of rather than against a parked bus hitting on the counter outfit.

    Burton away will be hard because NC will employ the same tactics he did at Pride Park earlier this season and they will be hard to beat...... again.

    Maybe it's because I have done reasonably well in a few different sports, I don't know, but it aint over till the buxom female starts singing.

    I expect PNE to get the backlash/fallout from Friday's non-performance.

    One thing I do know is that GR will not tinker with the starting XI. I see but 2 possibilities.
    1. Give Friday's starting XI the chance to redeem themselves
    2. Drop Keogh, Forsyth, BJ, GT, Lawro and Jerome

    Of our younger players, the better ones are out on loan and should come back all the better for it. Elsnik, Guy, MacDonald, Vernam and Lowe will be back and in the squad.

    Curtains I fear for Mason Bennett. He looked the deal in pre season but got overlooked in the League. A couple of decent sub appearances saw him get picked and over enthusiasm got the better of him and he injured himself early doors. Got fit and had another couple of sub appearances, went out on loan and now has been out with a hamstring injury. The talent is still there but with yet another season dogged by bad luck and injury I fear his time in the top 2 divisions has gone and he will drop down a league or 2 and have some success there............ if he can stay fit.
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    KeoghKeogh

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    Re: Next season

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Mon 02 Apr 2018, 9:31 am

    New England Ram wrote:
    KeoghKeogh wrote:
    New England Ram wrote:Easy to look at the under 23s and say nothing is coming through.
    But that’s a bunch of young lads on the same team.
    Take one or two and throw them in a team with more experience and you often see a different player.

    If you look at the negative impact of the approach taken by our captain on the form of our younger / less confident players: Christie, Lowe and Forsyth (ie to blame them publically and theatrically on the pitch), any of our 23s that get brought in will need to be very strong indeed to avoid being dragged down when they become his next focus of blame.

    If GR is not prepared / not allowed to make the right decision regarding captaincy, bringing in players from the 23s may create more problems that it solves.


    Counter argument to that is Hughes and Hendrick

    I partly agree - but Hughes and Hendrick were experienced albeit young players when they played for us.

    Hughes is very intelligent, confident and skillful.

    Hendrick is a very different character to Hughes. He is also very confident and, despite his youth, is more than able to 'look after himself'.

    Both played for us through the better and worse times; both looked very average at times in their last 12 / 18 months that they spent with us.
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    Stockport Ram

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    Re: Next season

    Post by Stockport Ram on Mon 02 Apr 2018, 9:57 am

    MadAmster wrote:
    KeoghKeogh wrote:
    MadAmster wrote:Well executed Black Cats game plan IMO aided and abetted by some Derby errors. Park a fleet of buses and hit on the break. Deflection for their first. My question is did Carson call for it as he had it covered. Second from a poor pass by Keogh helped by Davies being 10 yards back and 10 yards outside of where he should have been. Following the interception you have to credit Fletcher. 3rd goal a penalty when Fozzy didn't need to make the tackle especially with the "wrong" leg. 4th a complete mess up at a corner. Why nobody on the posts? A player on the far post would have had a decent chance of an interception. Our goal? Very well taken and one of the few times we actually went down the outside and crossed rather than trying to tippy tap through an overcrowded middle. That played into their hands. Did we really miss Hudds that much ? PNE will come at us and we will be more comfortable playing that game.

    Have a look at their 4th again - keep an eye on Keogh throughout.

    I will when the lowlights are posted on the OS. Whatever that might show, that won't negate the fact that a man on the far post would have helped.......


    He could have walked there in the time he stood stock still MA...

    He'll never be a defender as long as I've got a hole in my Wenger.
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    MadAmster

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    Re: Next season

    Post by MadAmster on Mon 02 Apr 2018, 10:17 am

    Stockport Ram wrote:

    He could have walked there in the time he stood stock still MA...

    He'll never be a defender as long as I've got a hole in my Wenger.

    Just had a quick butcher's at the lowlights. He starts off with a man and then he finds himself in yards of space in the 6 yard box in the manner of the very best of the "fox in the box" types ever. Shame he was defending at the time and left the guy behind him with even more space The bloke didn't know much about the cross, the ball hit his leg and bounced back into danger. Captain Calamity showed consistency and resolution and refused to be moved by what was going on around him. Not many players have that ability Wink
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    Re: Next season

    Post by Jackal on Mon 02 Apr 2018, 5:55 pm

    According to today's Daily Mirror, Derby will table a £750,000 bid for Millwall striker Lee Gregory in the summer. I know the Daily Mirror isn't exactly the best paper for rumours but it's atleast something to discuss.
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    Loughborough Ram

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    Re: Next season

    Post by Loughborough Ram on Mon 02 Apr 2018, 6:18 pm

    I honestly can't remember the Mirror ever getting a rumour right when it comes to us.
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    MadAmster

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    Re: Next season

    Post by MadAmster on Mon 02 Apr 2018, 6:50 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:I honestly can't remember the Mirror ever getting a rumour right

    A slight edit to your post Loughie...... Wink
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    Re: Next season

    Post by Jackal on Mon 02 Apr 2018, 7:20 pm

    I think we were linked with him in one of the previous windows, so they may just be recycling an old story.
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    KeoghKeogh

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    Re: Next season

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Mon 02 Apr 2018, 9:59 pm

    MadAmster wrote:
    Stockport Ram wrote:

    He could have walked there in the time he stood stock still MA...

    He'll never be a defender as long as I've got a hole in my Wenger.

    Just had a quick butcher's at the lowlights. He starts off with a man and then he finds himself in yards of space in the 6 yard box in the manner of the very best of the "fox in the box" types ever. Shame he was defending at the time and left the guy behind him with even more space The bloke didn't know much about the cross, the ball hit his leg and bounced back into danger. Captain Calamity showed consistency and resolution and refused to be moved by what was going on around him. Not many players have that ability Wink

    Yes - he lost concentration and then froze.

    Scroll back a bit further to see whether there is any organisation of markers, instructions given to team mates, encouragement or any leadership at all from Keogh in the immediate build up to the goal.

    Contrast this with Davies when we were about to defend any set piece during our (still weak) performance at Preston today.
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    valakari

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    Re: Next season

    Post by valakari on Tue 03 Apr 2018, 1:04 am

    I bet you are just loving life Keogh keogh

    chicken
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    Re: Next season

    Post by chicken on Tue 03 Apr 2018, 1:12 am

    Stockport Ram wrote:
    MadAmster wrote:
    KeoghKeogh wrote:
    MadAmster wrote:Well executed Black Cats game plan IMO aided and abetted by some Derby errors. Park a fleet of buses and hit on the break. Deflection for their first. My question is did Carson call for it as he had it covered. Second from a poor pass by Keogh helped by Davies being 10 yards back and 10 yards outside of where he should have been. Following the interception you have to credit Fletcher. 3rd goal a penalty when Fozzy didn't need to make the tackle especially with the "wrong" leg. 4th a complete mess up at a corner. Why nobody on the posts? A player on the far post would have had a decent chance of an interception. Our goal? Very well taken and one of the few times we actually went down the outside and crossed rather than trying to tippy tap through an overcrowded middle. That played into their hands. Did we really miss Hudds that much ? PNE will come at us and we will be more comfortable playing that game.

    Have a look at their 4th again - keep an eye on Keogh throughout.

    I will when the lowlights are posted on the OS. Whatever that might show, that won't negate the fact that a man on the far post would have helped.......


    He could have walked there in the time he stood stock still MA...

    He'll never be a defender as long as I've got a hole in my Wenger.

    Awful. But we knew that, didn’t we? Dropped 4 years too late.
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    KeoghKeogh

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    Re: Next season

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Tue 03 Apr 2018, 10:52 am

    valakari wrote:I bet you are just loving life Keogh keogh

    Why would you post that mate?

    I'm a Derby fan so I prefer to see us win 1:0 away at Preston rather than lose 1:4 at home to Sunderland.

    I prefer to see us being led by a captain who is (in my opinion) credible rather that one who (in my opinion) isn't.


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