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    Next season

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    baseballer

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    Re: Next season

    Post by baseballer on Tue 03 Apr 2018, 9:30 pm

    Next Season I hope we can play similar football like Fulham tonight. Awesome
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    valakari

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    Re: Next season

    Post by valakari on Tue 03 Apr 2018, 10:14 pm

    We used to...but apparently we failed...losing a pay off final. I do hope Fulham do as well...then they can get in a new manager who plays shit football...oh no actually I'd rather fail every year playing fabulous football and reaching a final at Wembley...cos it's better than failing playing our current brand!
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    bramhallram

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    Re: Next season

    Post by bramhallram on Wed 04 Apr 2018, 7:40 am

    valakari wrote:We used to...but apparently we failed...losing a pay off final. I do hope Fulham do as well...then they can get in a new manager who plays shit football...oh no actually I'd rather fail every year playing fabulous football and reaching a final at Wembley...cos it's better than failing playing our current brand!

    Very droll, Val. 'Pay off final' sums it up perfectly.

    .
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    MadAmster

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    Re: Next season

    Post by MadAmster on Wed 04 Apr 2018, 8:16 am

    There are those who think we are lucky and don't deserve to be top 6. Recently, we have had a slump in both results and performances. Sheff U, Cardiff, Villa and others have also gone through similar runs and come out of it. No reason to suppose we won't as well.

    Just seen that we have been in the top 6 for SIX MONTHS now and that is despite our recent 8 game winless streak that has now, thankfully, come to an end. Must be luck Wink


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    need therapy

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    Re: Next season

    Post by need therapy on Wed 04 Apr 2018, 4:40 pm

    The transfer window will be interesting with hopefully the young and hungry supplementing the experience / older players that will survive (mainly due to their length of contract). I have faith that during the next two transfer windows we will have a team that will get us over the line. It will take time but in GR I think we have the man to get us there. This year was always going to be consolidation and hence the brand of football but assuming we don't get up this year I think next year will be very different COYR.
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    Re: Next season

    Post by Rams bottom on Wed 04 Apr 2018, 4:54 pm

    Says every Derby fan at this time of year every year!
    We live in hope!
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    norfolkram

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    Re: Next season

    Post by norfolkram on Wed 04 Apr 2018, 5:17 pm

    Next season i hope we can get promoted but i won't hold my breath.
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    valakari

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    Re: Next season

    Post by valakari on Wed 04 Apr 2018, 5:40 pm

    On a very optimistic viewpoint, if somehow we do get into the play offs...they are a lottery..we may get a stupid referee..sorry, we will get a stupid referee...and he may just give us something for a change. I may be clutching at very many straws...but stranger things have happened. I am at least hopeful that whilst we still have a chance. On a realistic tack, we are an average side, with many bang average players who have 4 (at least) hard fixtures to even make the play offs!
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    Re: Next season

    Post by New England Ram on Thu 05 Apr 2018, 12:02 am

    Next season 50 years since our 68-69 promotion season.
    My favourite all time Rams team.
    If we don’t do it this year..Umbro reproduce that classic kit please and let’s do it next.



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    mcsilks

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    Re: Next season

    Post by mcsilks on Thu 05 Apr 2018, 12:36 am

    valakari wrote:On a very optimistic viewpoint, if somehow we do get into the play offs...they are a lottery..we may get a stupid referee..sorry, we will get a stupid referee...and he may just give us something for a change. I may be clutching at very many straws...but stranger things have happened. I am at least hopeful that whilst we still have a chance. On a realistic tack, we are an average side, with many bang average players who have 4 (at least) hard fixtures to even make the play offs!


    This talk of the play offs. If we were to go up with this ramshackle aged squad, I honestly think it would be a repeat of 'that' infamous season.

    Sadly, what the club needs is a total rebuild in every position and that is going to take another 1~2 seasons treading water in the championship and then hopefully a side that can challenge in 3~4 seasons.

    I feel sorry for Clough. All of the great work he did has been undone and unwittingly, MM and his millions have taken the club backwards, on the pitch at least.
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    Re: Next season

    Post by New England Ram on Thu 05 Apr 2018, 3:45 am

    mcsilks wrote:
    valakari wrote:On a very optimistic viewpoint, if somehow we do get into the play offs...they are a lottery..we may get a stupid referee..sorry, we will get a stupid referee...and he may just give us something for a change. I may be clutching at very many straws...but stranger things have happened. I am at least hopeful that whilst we still have a chance. On a realistic tack, we are an average side, with many bang average players who have 4 (at least) hard fixtures to even make the play offs!


    This talk of the play offs. If we were to go up with this ramshackle aged squad, I honestly think it would be a repeat of 'that' infamous season.

    Sadly, what the club needs is a total rebuild in every position and that is going to take another 1~2 seasons treading water in the championship and then hopefully a side that can challenge in 3~4 seasons.

    I feel sorry for Clough. All of the great work he did has been undone and unwittingly, MM and his millions have taken the club backwards, on the pitch at least.

    Disagree regarding Clough..

    He did a brilliant job steadying the club and offloading dead weight .
    But his teams were at best ordinary and uninspiring and crowds were dropping off...same things as Rowetts critics are implying is happening now.
    And since he’s been gone we have been in the playoffs twice and have a 50/50 chance of being in again.
    Once pre Mel and once with him.
    So for me at the very least we are the same as when Nigel was here but I think Rowett is a better manager.



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    mcsilks

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    Re: Next season

    Post by mcsilks on Thu 05 Apr 2018, 5:48 am

    New England Ram wrote:
    mcsilks wrote:
    valakari wrote:On a very optimistic viewpoint, if somehow we do get into the play offs...they are a lottery..we may get a stupid referee..sorry, we will get a stupid referee...and he may just give us something for a change. I may be clutching at very many straws...but stranger things have happened. I am at least hopeful that whilst we still have a chance. On a realistic tack, we are an average side, with many bang average players who have 4 (at least) hard fixtures to even make the play offs!


    This talk of the play offs. If we were to go up with this ramshackle aged squad, I honestly think it would be a repeat of 'that' infamous season.

    Sadly, what the club needs is a total rebuild in every position and that is going to take another 1~2 seasons treading water in the championship and then hopefully a side that can challenge in 3~4 seasons.

    I feel sorry for Clough. All of the great work he did has been undone and unwittingly, MM and his millions have taken the club backwards, on the pitch at least.

    Disagree regarding Clough..

    He did a brilliant job steadying the club and offloading dead weight .
    But his teams were at best ordinary and uninspiring and crowds were dropping off...same things as Rowetts critics are implying is happening now.
    And since he’s been gone we have been in the playoffs twice and have a 50/50 chance of being in again.
    Once pre Mel and once with him.
    So for me at the very least we are the same as when Nigel was here but I think Rowett is a better manager.


    I can see your point, but I will also add that Clough didn't spend a lot in the transfer market and since his departure, DCFC have ploughed tens of millions on transfers, managerial appointments, compensations, and the like in a vain attempt at getting into the Premier League.

    I think we are at a worse point right now then when we were when Clough lost his job. We have a squad that has very little value, is ageing, has no youth to speak of, and therefore is going nowhere fast.

    Clough left us with a foundation. That has all but gone despite having bad money after good thrown at it.
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    Re: Next season

    Post by Stockport Ram on Thu 05 Apr 2018, 6:42 am

    mcsilks wrote:
    New England Ram wrote:
    mcsilks wrote:
    valakari wrote:On a very optimistic viewpoint, if somehow we do get into the play offs...they are a lottery..we may get a stupid referee..sorry, we will get a stupid referee...and he may just give us something for a change. I may be clutching at very many straws...but stranger things have happened. I am at least hopeful that whilst we still have a chance. On a realistic tack, we are an average side, with many bang average players who have 4 (at least) hard fixtures to even make the play offs!


    This talk of the play offs. If we were to go up with this ramshackle aged squad, I honestly think it would be a repeat of 'that' infamous season.

    Sadly, what the club needs is a total rebuild in every position and that is going to take another 1~2 seasons treading water in the championship and then hopefully a side that can challenge in 3~4 seasons.

    I feel sorry for Clough. All of the great work he did has been undone and unwittingly, MM and his millions have taken the club backwards, on the pitch at least.

    Disagree regarding Clough..

    He did a brilliant job steadying the club and offloading dead weight .
    But his teams were at best ordinary and uninspiring and crowds were dropping off...same things as Rowetts critics are implying is happening now.
    And since he’s been gone we have been in the playoffs twice and have a 50/50 chance of being in again.
    Once pre Mel and once with him.
    So for me at the very least we are the same as when Nigel was here but I think Rowett is a better manager.


    I can see your point, but I will also add that Clough didn't spend a lot in the transfer market and since his departure, DCFC have ploughed tens of millions on transfers, managerial appointments, compensations, and the like in a vain attempt at getting into the Premier League.

    I think we are at a worse point right now then when we were when Clough lost his job. We have a squad that has very little value, is ageing, has no youth to speak of, and therefore is going nowhere fast.

    Clough left us with a foundation. That has all but gone despite having bad money after good thrown at it.


    Agree 100%.
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    MadAmster

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    Re: Next season

    Post by MadAmster on Thu 05 Apr 2018, 7:23 am

    4 or 5 of the most promising young uns are out getting 1st team experience. Not having seen their exploits in their temporary homes I cannot pass comment on their progress but the likes of Lowe, Elsink, McDonald and Vernam have already been around our squad. We have a couple of others who are there now like Thomas etc.

    I don't know GRs plans for next season. PL or SBC? Where we are will make a difference. PL will see us try to offload quite a few of the current squad, around or into double figures I believe. SBC would give GR the chance to integrate the young uns as well as offloading half a dozen or more of the elder statesman.

    New season, new formation? You never know. Loughie and I have mentioned 3 at the back before. The 3 best we have for those roles are Wisdom, Pearce and Davies. A midfield 5 with wing backs would work with 2 of our current staff in those positions. Lowe on the left and........ Keogh on the right. Yes, good old Richard. I think he would be a success in that role but without the armband. Centrally Hudds in font of the back 3. The 2 "inside forwards"? Lawrence for one. A more central role will suit him much better. For the other role you might want to go for a horses for courses choice, BJ if you want to have bite there or Weimann for the games where you play a more attacking game. Up top an new CF and Vydra in a free role.
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    mcsilks

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    Re: Next season

    Post by mcsilks on Thu 05 Apr 2018, 7:41 am

    MadAmster wrote:4 or 5 of the most promising young uns are out getting 1st team experience. Not having seen their exploits in their temporary homes I cannot pass  comment on their progress but the likes of Lowe, Elsink, McDonald and Vernam have already been around our squad. We have a couple of others who are there now like Thomas etc.

    I don't know GRs plans for next season. PL or SBC? Where we are will make a difference. PL will see us try to offload quite a few of the current squad, around or into double figures I believe. SBC would give GR the chance to integrate the young uns as well as offloading half a dozen or more of the elder statesman.

    New season, new formation? You never know. Loughie and I have mentioned 3 at the back before. The 3 best we have for those roles are Wisdom, Pearce and Davies. A midfield 5 with wing backs would work with 2 of our current staff in those positions. Lowe on the left and........ Keogh on the right. Yes, good old Richard. I think he would be a success in that role but without the armband. Centrally Hudds in font of the back 3. The 2 "inside forwards"? Lawrence for one. A more central role will suit him much better. For the other role you might want to go for a horses for courses choice, BJ if you want to have bite there or Weimann for the games where you play a more attacking game. Up top an new CF and Vydra in a free role.


    There's a fair few assumptions/presumptions in there.

    Our defence at the minute at best average. Keogh seems to bare the brunt of stick from those that go week in, week out. Curtis Davies isn't getting any younger. Pearce has been unfancied by most managers we have had.

    Lowe hasn't shown a great deal in the playing time he has had. Our full backs are error prone.

    Our midfield is immobile and lethargic. Even those that are coming back from their loan spells have barely featured for their clubs.

    Of the youth, the lads at Swindon are struggling for first team spots.

    With regard to the system, there is no evidence that a 3 at the back would work and even if we do revert to that system, we would require a midfield that does a little more than sit in front of a back two as they currently do.

    Sorry mate, I can't get too excited about the prospects for next year unless we have a root and branch clear-out which is not going to happen as we have players under contract....most of which have their best years well and truly behind them.

    Add to that, a manager who seems intent on playing the most negative brand of football I have seen at Derby for some time but then again...we knew that when we brought him in.
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    Re: Next season

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Thu 05 Apr 2018, 7:57 am

    Unless things turn around in the next few games I think that Vydra will have an eye on another club in the summer.

    He wasn't a regular starter for GR during August to end October / early November 2017 and, despite his goals and abvious ability I don't sense that he is GR's 'first name on the team sheet'.

    BTW I rate Vydra as one of our handfuls of standout players (alongside Carson and Davies).
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    Re: Next season

    Post by MadAmster on Thu 05 Apr 2018, 11:07 am

    mcsilks wrote:

    With regard to the system, there is no evidence that a 3 at the back would work and even if we do revert to that system, we would require a midfield that does a little more than sit in front of a back two as they currently do.


    Totally agree. That is why with Lowe or Olsson or a properly fit Fozzy if that ever happens on the left of the 5 and Keogh on the right we would have pace. Hudds as the DM, yes you are right, not the fastest thing on 2 legs but his footballing brain means he doesn't have to be. The other 2 MFs/inside forwards could be Weimann for one. Played ahead of Hudds and not out wide he would be a better a player IMO. The other place? Lawrence (or Palmer should we sign him which I doubt) would be better in a central role than out wide as per Weimann. If we wanted a bit more steel in that department then BJ could replace Weimann or Lawrence. With that midfield I just dont see the ponderance to which you refer seeing we only play 2 MFs currently and they haven't been the fastest (Hudds/Ledley/GT). The names I have put forward all have pace with the possible exception of BJ who although no sprinter, isn't exactly slow. Keogh has pace, Lowe has pace, Lawro has pace, Weimann has pace............. 4 out of 5 aint bad.
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    Re: Next season

    Post by New England Ram on Fri 06 Apr 2018, 1:03 pm

    mcsilks wrote:
    New England Ram wrote:
    mcsilks wrote:
    valakari wrote:On a very optimistic viewpoint, if somehow we do get into the play offs...they are a lottery..we may get a stupid referee..sorry, we will get a stupid referee...and he may just give us something for a change. I may be clutching at very many straws...but stranger things have happened. I am at least hopeful that whilst we still have a chance. On a realistic tack, we are an average side, with many bang average players who have 4 (at least) hard fixtures to even make the play offs!


    This talk of the play offs. If we were to go up with this ramshackle aged squad, I honestly think it would be a repeat of 'that' infamous season.

    Sadly, what the club needs is a total rebuild in every position and that is going to take another 1~2 seasons treading water in the championship and then hopefully a side that can challenge in 3~4 seasons.

    I feel sorry for Clough. All of the great work he did has been undone and unwittingly, MM and his millions have taken the club backwards, on the pitch at least.

    Disagree regarding Clough..

    He did a brilliant job steadying the club and offloading dead weight .
    But his teams were at best ordinary and uninspiring and crowds were dropping off...same things as Rowetts critics are implying is happening now.
    And since he’s been gone we have been in the playoffs twice and have a 50/50 chance of being in again.
    Once pre Mel and once with him.
    So for me at the very least we are the same as when Nigel was here but I think Rowett is a better manager.


    I can see your point, but I will also add that Clough didn't spend a lot in the transfer market and since his departure, DCFC have ploughed tens of millions on transfers, managerial appointments, compensations, and the like in a vain attempt at getting into the Premier League.

    I think we are at a worse point right now then when we were when Clough lost his job. We have a squad that has very little value, is ageing, has no youth to speak of, and therefore is going nowhere fast.

    Clough left us with a foundation. That has all but gone despite having bad money after good thrown at it.

    Not looked into it but it’s all about results and standings at the end of the day.
    And without looking into them I would guess both have been better since Cloughs departure.



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    mcsilks

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    Re: Next season

    Post by mcsilks on Fri 06 Apr 2018, 2:05 pm

    New England Ram wrote:
    mcsilks wrote:
    New England Ram wrote:
    mcsilks wrote:
    valakari wrote:On a very optimistic viewpoint, if somehow we do get into the play offs...they are a lottery..we may get a stupid referee..sorry, we will get a stupid referee...and he may just give us something for a change. I may be clutching at very many straws...but stranger things have happened. I am at least hopeful that whilst we still have a chance. On a realistic tack, we are an average side, with many bang average players who have 4 (at least) hard fixtures to even make the play offs!


    This talk of the play offs. If we were to go up with this ramshackle aged squad, I honestly think it would be a repeat of 'that' infamous season.

    Sadly, what the club needs is a total rebuild in every position and that is going to take another 1~2 seasons treading water in the championship and then hopefully a side that can challenge in 3~4 seasons.

    I feel sorry for Clough. All of the great work he did has been undone and unwittingly, MM and his millions have taken the club backwards, on the pitch at least.

    Disagree regarding Clough..

    He did a brilliant job steadying the club and offloading dead weight .
    But his teams were at best ordinary and uninspiring and crowds were dropping off...same things as Rowetts critics are implying is happening now.
    And since he’s been gone we have been in the playoffs twice and have a 50/50 chance of being in again.
    Once pre Mel and once with him.
    So for me at the very least we are the same as when Nigel was here but I think Rowett is a better manager.


    I can see your point, but I will also add that Clough didn't spend a lot in the transfer market and since his departure, DCFC have ploughed tens of millions on transfers, managerial appointments, compensations, and the like in a vain attempt at getting into the Premier League.

    I think we are at a worse point right now then when we were when Clough lost his job. We have a squad that has very little value, is ageing, has no youth to speak of, and therefore is going nowhere fast.

    Clough left us with a foundation. That has all but gone despite having bad money after good thrown at it.

    Not looked into it but it’s all about results and standings at the end of the day.
    And without looking into them I would guess both have been better since Cloughs departure.


    I don't think such a simplistic view can be taken. Clough was dealing with bargain basement signings (and finding some real gems), whereas his predecessors have been given 10's of millions to spend.

    And those results and standings mean one thing...we are stuck in the same league but we are tacking a HUGE wage bill and have a ridiculously expensively assembled bunch of overpaid has beens.

    What the club needs now is a total clear-out and a complete rebuild.



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    Re: Next season

    Post by New England Ram on Fri 06 Apr 2018, 3:33 pm

    [quote="mcsilks"]
    New England Ram wrote:
    mcsilks wrote:
    New England Ram wrote:
    mcsilks wrote:
    valakari wrote:On a very optimistic viewpoint, if somehow we do get into the play offs...they are a lottery..we may get a stupid referee..sorry, we will get a stupid referee...and he may just give us something for a change. I may be clutching at very many straws...but stranger things have happened. I am at least hopeful that whilst we still have a chance. On a realistic tack, we are an average side, with many bang average players who have 4 (at least) hard fixtures to even make the play offs!


    This talk of the play offs. If we were to go up with this ramshackle aged squad, I honestly think it would be a repeat of 'that' infamous season.

    Sadly, what the club needs is a total rebuild in every position and that is going to take another 1~2 seasons treading water in the championship and then hopefully a side that can challenge in 3~4 seasons.

    I feel sorry for Clough. All of the great work he did has been undone and unwittingly, MM and his millions have taken the club backwards, on the pitch at least.

    Disagree regarding Clough..

    He did a brilliant job steadying the club and offloading dead weight .
    But his teams were at best ordinary and uninspiring and crowds were dropping off...same things as Rowetts critics are implying is happening now.
    And since he’s been gone we have been in the playoffs twice and have a 50/50 chance of being in again.
    Once pre Mel and once with him.
    So for me at the very least we are the same as when Nigel was here but I think Rowett is a better manager.


    I can see your point, but I will also add that Clough didn't spend a lot in the transfer market and since his departure, DCFC have ploughed tens of millions on transfers, managerial appointments, compensations, and the like in a vain attempt at getting into the Premier League.

    I think we are at a worse point right now then when we were when Clough lost his job. We have a squad that has very little value, is ageing, has no youth to speak of, and therefore is going nowhere fast.

    Clough left us with a foundation. That has all but gone despite having bad money after good thrown at it.

    Not looked into it but it’s all about results and standings at the end of the day.
    And without looking into them I would guess both have been better since Cloughs departure.


    I don't think such a simplistic view can be taken. Clough was dealing with bargain basement signings (and finding some real gems), whereas his predecessors have been given 10's of millions to spend.

    And those results and standings mean one thing...we are stuck in the same league but we are tacking a HUGE wage bill and have a ridiculously expensively assembled bunch of overpaid has beens.

    What the club needs now is a total clear-out and a complete rebuild.



    [/quote

    Yeah I disagree

    The club did not come to life again until the first season with the Wally with the Brolly.
    The club was stagnant and we were doing nothing but treading water.
    Clough did a good job but in my opinion his methods and style were limited and we had no prospects going forward back then.
    You only have to have been in the chat box back then to remember how miserable fans were








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    valakari

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    Re: Next season

    Post by valakari on Fri 06 Apr 2018, 5:33 pm

    We did have good loan signings in Ibe, lingard, Bamford etc but they were never going to be permanant.  We also had really talented players in Hendrick, Hughes, Bryson, Martin and Ince..but we have got rid of them. We also had some hard workers in Ward and Russell..but they also have moved on what we have replaced them with are older, less talented and less sell on value players. We have gone so downhill over the last 4 seasons it beggars belief.
    The entertainment value has decreased in line with the player value.
    At all the forums I have been to, Mel Morris has said that the managers keeping their jobs was not determined by league position but by; the manager improving the players, by the manager increasing the value of players and by the manager bringing through some of the academy players into the first team. On all 3 counts, I believe Gary Rowett has failed so far...okay so the idea of March have passed, but I don't think Rowett is as safe as he and many on here think he is!
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    Re: Next season

    Post by New England Ram on Fri 06 Apr 2018, 6:07 pm

    valakari wrote:We did have good loan signings in Ibe, lingard, Branford etc but they were never going to be permanant.  We also had really talented players in Hendrick, Hughes, Bryson, Martin and Ince..but we have got rid of them. We also had some hard workers in Ward and Russell..but they also have moved on what we have replaced them with are older, less talented and less sell on value players. We have gone so downhill over the last 4 seasons it beggars belief.
    The entertainment value has decreased in line with the player value.
    At all the forums I have been to, Mel Morris has said that the managers keeping their jobs was not determined by league position but by; the manager improving the players, by the manager increasing the value of players and by the manager bringing through some of the academy players into the first team. On all 3 counts, I believe Gary Rowett has failed so far...okay so the idea of March have passed, but I don't think Rowett is as safe as he and many on here think he is!

    Rowett came in with pretty much the same role to perform as Clough did when he arrived.
    Dismantle a team of under achievers with financial restraints in place.
    Not as severe financial restraints as the Clough era but restraints none the less.
    Would Clough have been classed a failure after a year ..especially if he was 5th with a handful of games to go.
    Rowett is having to rebuild and wheel and deal regardless of what people say.
    But people were hitting panic buttons in September and are still hitting them.
    Just don’t get people’s reluctance to give a manager time..one year is no time.



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    KeoghKeogh

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    Re: Next season

    Post by KeoghKeogh on Fri 06 Apr 2018, 8:09 pm

    Clough did well on the whole. His 2 main problems for me were his inability to make the right calls during games and his poor treatment of a minority of players.

    On the first, his substitutions during matches often made things worse. The players on the pitch often didn't seem to know what was changing with the subs - made worse when he changed things again with the next substitution. He would have really benefitted from Simmo or someone to talk too - presuming that he would have listened to them.

    On the second, his treatment of Cywka was very poor. He wasn't much better with Hendrick at times. I could not see how his public outbursts could have helped these young players or the team.

    Other than that, he did a decent job. His team with Bueno in it was only a handful of players away from being very good indeed IMHO.

    I wish him all the best.
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    valakari

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    Re: Next season

    Post by valakari on Fri 06 Apr 2018, 9:58 pm

    My points are nothing to do with Clough!
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    Re: Next season

    Post by New England Ram on Fri 06 Apr 2018, 10:22 pm

    valakari wrote:My points are nothing to do with Clough!

    The point was made in the thread that the team had gone backwards since Cloughie.
    (Nigel not Brian)




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