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    first 6 minutes of Derby football

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    New England Ram
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    Re: first 6 minutes of Derby football

    Post by New England Ram on Fri 13 Apr 2018, 2:48 am

    Loughie is very long in the tooth I’m pretty sure he knows there are only another 91 possibilities for pissed off fans.
    Off the top of my head I can think of about 16.

    You want to know why we get pissed of MC.
    The way I see it it’s always the same..sooner or later a self proclaimed realist comes along and decides he is going to educate and open our eyes to what’s really happening.
    But whilst doing that he forgets to actually listen to what the uneducated locals have to say or what they see.
    I always say this forum is a grey area not a black and white one.
    Nobody gets over excited about a win nor down about a loss .everyone is pretty centered we don’t want to wallow in doom nor do we shower ourselves in euphoria.
    Folk on here see the big picture we don’t need people to keep painting us one.
    We know everything isn’t Rosy but we also know the sky isn’t falling in either..(as long as Trump keeps his fat fingers in his pocket)


    Last edited by New England Ram on Fri 13 Apr 2018, 3:26 am; edited 1 time in total



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    mcsilks

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    Re: first 6 minutes of Derby football

    Post by mcsilks on Fri 13 Apr 2018, 3:05 am

    New England Ram wrote:Loughie is very long in the tooth I’m pretty sure he knows there are only another 91 possibilities for pissed off fans.
    Off the top of my head I can think of about 16.

    You want to know why we get pissed of MC.
    The way I see it it’s always the same..sooner or later a self proclaimed realist comes along and decides he is going to educate and open our eyes to what’s really happening.
    But whilst doing that he forgets to actually listen to what the uneducated locals have to say or what they see.
    I always say this forum is a grey area not a black and white one.
    Nobody gets over excited about a win nor down about a loss .everyone is pretty centered we don’t want to wallow in doom nor do we shower ourselves in euphoria.
    Folk on here see the big picture we don’t need people to keep painting us one.



    I think it's all about opinion NER.

    I merely say what I see. I don't confess to being right...I just state what I think. I don't state that you are wrong either.

    If you could enlighten me as to where I am not listening to these so called 'uneducated locals' then that would be great.

    You just disagree with me as you think I am wrong in saying that our performances haven't been particularly watchable this season. That is fine! I accept your opinion NER!

    Everybody is entitled to an opinion and everybody is entitled to voice theirs. Just because you happen to disagree with mine shouldn't mean you have to accuse someone of not listening to others.

    You say nobody get's excited about a win. I beg to differ. When we were on the run, fans on here were getting very excited and justifiably.

    When we lose, some fans are practically ready to slit their wrists with their opinions.

    I would say that fans on here do not see the bigger picture. They want success now and that is why quite a few on here are rather oddly IMO calling for the managers head. Is that seeing the bigger picture.

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    New England Ram
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    Re: first 6 minutes of Derby football

    Post by New England Ram on Fri 13 Apr 2018, 3:36 am

    mcsilks wrote:
    New England Ram wrote:Loughie is very long in the tooth I’m pretty sure he knows there are only another 91 possibilities for pissed off fans.
    Off the top of my head I can think of about 16.

    You want to know why we get pissed of MC.
    The way I see it it’s always the same..sooner or later a self proclaimed realist comes along and decides he is going to educate and open our eyes to what’s really happening.
    But whilst doing that he forgets to actually listen to what the uneducated locals have to say or what they see.
    I always say this forum is a grey area not a black and white one.
    Nobody gets over excited about a win nor down about a loss .everyone is pretty centered we don’t want to wallow in doom nor do we shower ourselves in euphoria.
    Folk on here see the big picture we don’t need people to keep painting us one.



    I think it's all about opinion NER.

    I merely say what I see. I don't confess to being right...I just state what I think. I don't state that you are wrong either.

    If you could enlighten me as to where I am not listening to these so called 'uneducated locals' then that would be great.

    You just disagree with me as you think I am wrong in saying that our performances haven't been particularly watchable this season. That is fine! I accept your opinion NER!

    Everybody is entitled to an opinion and everybody is entitled to voice theirs. Just because you happen to disagree with mine shouldn't mean you have to accuse someone of not listening to others.

    You say nobody get's excited about a win. I beg to differ. When we were on the run, fans on here were getting very excited and justifiably.

    When we lose, some fans are practically ready to slit their wrists with their opinions.

    I would say that fans on here do not see the bigger picture. They want success now and that is why quite a few on here are rather oddly IMO calling for the managers head. Is that seeing the bigger picture.


    Told you before MC i do not care about performances.
    They have not been exciting but I said two seasons ago I felt the best chance to get out this league is to grind your way out..UNLESS you can afford to stack your team with talent..
    So where as you wanted performance and entertainment I wanted points and the position to be in with a chance when the season comes to an end...whose right  Dunno

    No regulars on here shouting for Rowetts Head nor demanding instant gratification ..at least nobody that I would class as a regular.



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    mcsilks

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    Re: first 6 minutes of Derby football

    Post by mcsilks on Fri 13 Apr 2018, 3:57 am

    New England Ram wrote:
    mcsilks wrote:
    New England Ram wrote:Loughie is very long in the tooth I’m pretty sure he knows there are only another 91 possibilities for pissed off fans.
    Off the top of my head I can think of about 16.

    You want to know why we get pissed of MC.
    The way I see it it’s always the same..sooner or later a self proclaimed realist comes along and decides he is going to educate and open our eyes to what’s really happening.
    But whilst doing that he forgets to actually listen to what the uneducated locals have to say or what they see.
    I always say this forum is a grey area not a black and white one.
    Nobody gets over excited about a win nor down about a loss .everyone is pretty centered we don’t want to wallow in doom nor do we shower ourselves in euphoria.
    Folk on here see the big picture we don’t need people to keep painting us one.



    I think it's all about opinion NER.

    I merely say what I see. I don't confess to being right...I just state what I think. I don't state that you are wrong either.

    If you could enlighten me as to where I am not listening to these so called 'uneducated locals' then that would be great.

    You just disagree with me as you think I am wrong in saying that our performances haven't been particularly watchable this season. That is fine! I accept your opinion NER!

    Everybody is entitled to an opinion and everybody is entitled to voice theirs. Just because you happen to disagree with mine shouldn't mean you have to accuse someone of not listening to others.

    You say nobody get's excited about a win. I beg to differ. When we were on the run, fans on here were getting very excited and justifiably.

    When we lose, some fans are practically ready to slit their wrists with their opinions.

    I would say that fans on here do not see the bigger picture. They want success now and that is why quite a few on here are rather oddly IMO calling for the managers head. Is that seeing the bigger picture.


    Told you before MC i do not care about performances.
    They have not been exciting but I said two seasons ago I felt the best chance to get out this league is to grind your way out..UNLESS you can afford to stack your team with talent..
    So where as you wanted performance and entertainment I wanted points and the position to be in with a chance when the season comes to an end...whose right  Dunno

    No regulars on here shouting for Rowetts Head nor demanding instant gratification ..at least nobody that I would class as a regular.


    There are some regulars that have berated GR and suggested that his time might be up.

    In terms of promotion, I agree that it is about doing anything that it takes to get out of this league. I get that, totally. Where we disagree is that I haven't seen that this season. What I have seen is a side that has been largely second best in games and have relied on huge chunks of good fortune.

    By all means, play a gritty dull style of football if that is what it takes, but I don't feel this current side is good enough to do that and feature. I'm not sure GR feels that either, hence we let the opposition play the football and try to feed off their scraps.

    When sides have come to our place and said to Derby...ok, you play the football; we have come up short.

    I see sides around us that have a much lesser wage bill and have spent considerably less than we have that are laced with young talent and play a very measured brand of football. They can play ugly and win, they can play some great football and win. I don't believe we are capable of that and after the money we have spent, and the contracts we have given out, I feel that our fans deserve the right to have a side that is capable of playing some good football.

    I also would expect that our academy would have produced a little more than what it has. Where is all of our talented youth? We are supposed to have one of the very best state of the art training facilities.

    Now...you will probably read this and accuse me of being negative. Or maybe of stating what everyone already knows but isn't this the forum for voicing these opinions?

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    New England Ram
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    Re: first 6 minutes of Derby football

    Post by New England Ram on Fri 13 Apr 2018, 5:17 am

    I would give you Bristol and Brentford as two clubs that have done well with less established and more youthful squads.
    I have no clue what Millwalls squad or team is.
    Fulham and Wolves have plenty of money and clearly have invested well..in younger players.

    To counter that you can look at Hull and Sunderland who have had nightmare seasons on Premier League money..Boro who have been average at best ..Villa inconsistent .
    Then you have Sheffield Wednesday who were flying last season and have tanked completely 17th as we speak..
    And then there are the Leeds and Forests who stumble from farce to farce.
    So where as you can think of teams you would like to emulate I can think of many I wouldn’t.

    As we speak there are still only 4 teams above us and we can discuss this all day but at the end of it it’s about points and wins..and we have won enough to be relevant.
    And you will say we were lucky in many occasions and I can say the other teams were not good enough to take advantage.
    And as they say “ if you can’t score you don’t win”



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    MadAmster

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    Re: first 6 minutes of Derby football

    Post by MadAmster on Fri 13 Apr 2018, 7:21 am

    New England Ram wrote:
    And as they say “ if you can’t score you don’t win”

    ... and, as Johan Cruijff used to say "Als je niet schiet, kan je niet scoren" aka "if you don't shoot, you can't score".

    I would like to see a few more shots and a few more opportunities to shoot, however, if we grind out enough points to make the playoffs and then manage to win the damned thing, you won't hear me complaining.

    Whatever League we are in next season, I think we will see Max Lowe, Timi Elsnik, Jamie Hanson, Mason Bennett (if he is still here) and Luke Thomas at the very least as regular members of the squad. There are a couple of others who might be on the fringes as well.

    It's not all doom and gloom from the Academy, there are bright prospects of an age and experience level to bridge the gap. IMO.

    What I would say to those lambasting the Academy is this....... Most of the names I mentioned came into the Academy as it was pre MM. Thomas might be the exception. It will take a couple of years before we start to see whether the new status of the Academy has started to produce players ona regular basis. One decent player a season breaking into the 1st team will more than justify the money the Academy costs.
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    Re: first 6 minutes of Derby football

    Post by SawleyRam on Fri 13 Apr 2018, 1:09 pm

    mcsilks wrote:
    New England Ram wrote:
    mcsilks wrote:
    New England Ram wrote:Loughie is very long in the tooth I’m pretty sure he knows there are only another 91 possibilities for pissed off fans.
    Off the top of my head I can think of about 16.

    You want to know why we get pissed of MC.
    The way I see it it’s always the same..sooner or later a self proclaimed realist comes along and decides he is going to educate and open our eyes to what’s really happening.
    But whilst doing that he forgets to actually listen to what the uneducated locals have to say or what they see.
    I always say this forum is a grey area not a black and white one.
    Nobody gets over excited about a win nor down about a loss .everyone is pretty centered we don’t want to wallow in doom nor do we shower ourselves in euphoria.
    Folk on here see the big picture we don’t need people to keep painting us one.



    I think it's all about opinion NER.

    I merely say what I see. I don't confess to being right...I just state what I think. I don't state that you are wrong either.

    If you could enlighten me as to where I am not listening to these so called 'uneducated locals' then that would be great.

    You just disagree with me as you think I am wrong in saying that our performances haven't been particularly watchable this season. That is fine! I accept your opinion NER!

    Everybody is entitled to an opinion and everybody is entitled to voice theirs. Just because you happen to disagree with mine shouldn't mean you have to accuse someone of not listening to others.

    You say nobody get's excited about a win. I beg to differ. When we were on the run, fans on here were getting very excited and justifiably.

    When we lose, some fans are practically ready to slit their wrists with their opinions.

    I would say that fans on here do not see the bigger picture. They want success now and that is why quite a few on here are rather oddly IMO calling for the managers head. Is that seeing the bigger picture.


    Told you before MC i do not care about performances.
    They have not been exciting but I said two seasons ago I felt the best chance to get out this league is to grind your way out..UNLESS you can afford to stack your team with talent..
    So where as you wanted performance and entertainment I wanted points and the position to be in with a chance when the season comes to an end...whose right  Dunno

    No regulars on here shouting for Rowetts Head nor demanding instant gratification ..at least nobody that I would class as a regular.


    There are some regulars that have berated GR and suggested that his time might be up.

    In terms of promotion, I agree that it is about doing anything that it takes to get out of this league. I get that, totally. Where we disagree is that I haven't seen that this season. What I have seen is a side that has been largely second best in games and have relied on huge chunks of good fortune.

    By all means, play a gritty dull style of football if that is what it takes, but I don't feel this current side is good enough to do that and feature. I'm not sure GR feels that either, hence we let the opposition play the football and try to feed off their scraps.

    When sides have come to our place and said to Derby...ok, you play the football; we have come up short.

    I see sides around us that have a much lesser wage bill and have spent considerably less than we have that are laced with young talent and play a very measured brand of football. They can play ugly and win, they can play some great football and win. I don't believe we are capable of that and after the money we have spent, and the contracts we have given out, I feel that our fans deserve the right to have a side that is capable of playing some good football.

    I also would expect that our academy would have produced a little more than what it has. Where is all of our talented youth? We are supposed to have one of the very best state of the art training facilities.

    Now...you will probably read this and accuse me of being negative. Or maybe of stating what everyone already knows but isn't this the forum for voicing these opinions?


    What I don't get is that it was to be a season of transition then GR's ideas began to sink in with the players and expectations took over and it appears that it is all about promotion now.

    I seem to remember a poll before the season started where the majority voted for 8th to 10th place being acceptable with promotion next season, I don't know if you took part Mcsilks, I shouldn't think so because nobody voted for relegation!

    The point of this post is not many voted for promotion this season, so the majority of those that voted see a little clearer than others.
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    mcsilks

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    Re: first 6 minutes of Derby football

    Post by mcsilks on Fri 13 Apr 2018, 1:45 pm

    SawleyRam wrote:
    mcsilks wrote:
    New England Ram wrote:
    mcsilks wrote:
    New England Ram wrote:Loughie is very long in the tooth I’m pretty sure he knows there are only another 91 possibilities for pissed off fans.
    Off the top of my head I can think of about 16.

    You want to know why we get pissed of MC.
    The way I see it it’s always the same..sooner or later a self proclaimed realist comes along and decides he is going to educate and open our eyes to what’s really happening.
    But whilst doing that he forgets to actually listen to what the uneducated locals have to say or what they see.
    I always say this forum is a grey area not a black and white one.
    Nobody gets over excited about a win nor down about a loss .everyone is pretty centered we don’t want to wallow in doom nor do we shower ourselves in euphoria.
    Folk on here see the big picture we don’t need people to keep painting us one.



    I think it's all about opinion NER.

    I merely say what I see. I don't confess to being right...I just state what I think. I don't state that you are wrong either.

    If you could enlighten me as to where I am not listening to these so called 'uneducated locals' then that would be great.

    You just disagree with me as you think I am wrong in saying that our performances haven't been particularly watchable this season. That is fine! I accept your opinion NER!

    Everybody is entitled to an opinion and everybody is entitled to voice theirs. Just because you happen to disagree with mine shouldn't mean you have to accuse someone of not listening to others.

    You say nobody get's excited about a win. I beg to differ. When we were on the run, fans on here were getting very excited and justifiably.

    When we lose, some fans are practically ready to slit their wrists with their opinions.

    I would say that fans on here do not see the bigger picture. They want success now and that is why quite a few on here are rather oddly IMO calling for the managers head. Is that seeing the bigger picture.


    Told you before MC i do not care about performances.
    They have not been exciting but I said two seasons ago I felt the best chance to get out this league is to grind your way out..UNLESS you can afford to stack your team with talent..
    So where as you wanted performance and entertainment I wanted points and the position to be in with a chance when the season comes to an end...whose right  Dunno

    No regulars on here shouting for Rowetts Head nor demanding instant gratification ..at least nobody that I would class as a regular.


    There are some regulars that have berated GR and suggested that his time might be up.

    In terms of promotion, I agree that it is about doing anything that it takes to get out of this league. I get that, totally. Where we disagree is that I haven't seen that this season. What I have seen is a side that has been largely second best in games and have relied on huge chunks of good fortune.

    By all means, play a gritty dull style of football if that is what it takes, but I don't feel this current side is good enough to do that and feature. I'm not sure GR feels that either, hence we let the opposition play the football and try to feed off their scraps.

    When sides have come to our place and said to Derby...ok, you play the football; we have come up short.

    I see sides around us that have a much lesser wage bill and have spent considerably less than we have that are laced with young talent and play a very measured brand of football. They can play ugly and win, they can play some great football and win. I don't believe we are capable of that and after the money we have spent, and the contracts we have given out, I feel that our fans deserve the right to have a side that is capable of playing some good football.

    I also would expect that our academy would have produced a little more than what it has. Where is all of our talented youth? We are supposed to have one of the very best state of the art training facilities.

    Now...you will probably read this and accuse me of being negative. Or maybe of stating what everyone already knows but isn't this the forum for voicing these opinions?


    What I don't get is that it was to be a season of transition then GR's ideas began to sink in with the players and expectations took over and it appears that it is all about promotion now.

    I seem to remember a poll before the season started where the majority voted for 8th to 10th place being acceptable with promotion next season, I don't know if you took part Mcsilks, I shouldn't think so because nobody voted for relegation!

    The point of this post is not many voted for promotion this season,  so the majority of those that voted see a little clearer than others.


    Why would you think that I would have voted for relegation?

    Why is it you think I am so negative? I am negative about our style of play because we play in a completely reactive as a pose to a proactive way. That is the only point I am consistently negative about.

    You assume that as I disagree with some of the regulars on other points that I am being negative. On the contrary, I am very positive about our league position and the job that GR has done thus far. Can you not see that or do you just choose to ignore that as my praise for the manager has been consistent.

    Now if you were to do a poll right now as to where we'll finish next season, I would say lower mid-table for the reasons I have said in the 'next season' thread.

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    RRC
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    Re: first 6 minutes of Derby football

    Post by RRC on Fri 13 Apr 2018, 2:48 pm

    mcsilks wrote:I see sides around us that have a much lesser wage bill and have spent considerably less than we have that are laced with young talent and play a very measured brand of football. They can play ugly and win, they can play some great football and win. I don't believe we are capable of that and after the money we have spent, and the contracts we have given out, I feel that our fans deserve the right to have a side that is capable of playing some good football.

    mcsilks wrote:I am negative about our style of play because we play in a completely reactive as a pose to a proactive way.

    Re. recruitment and spending
    Imho the problem has been our poor scouting (or lack of) and it's been so for a long time.
    If we want a talented player, we usually go for a player already established and proven in the UK.
    As a result, we pay high UK prices and are persuaded or forced to accept long contracts.
    Or we sign older players who are out of contract and give them terms that their current clubs are unwilling to offer.
    Other clubs scout abroad and pay local prices or spot a promising lower league player before a bidding war starts.
    We rarely, if ever, get there first, which leads on to my (your) second point --

    Re. reactive v proactive
    I agree that we aren't pro-active.
    But we aren't really reactive either -- I'd say that 'passive' is a more accurate description.
    GR has decided on one formation and one style of play and we stick to it regardless.
    He seems to ignore how the opposition set up and play, as if that doesn't matter or it comes as a surprise.
    What does GR do when it's obvious in the first 15-20 minutes that our way is not going to work?
    Anything other than like-for-like substitutions or a minor change when it's too late?

    If this is the Derby way, it's high time we tried something different.
    I hope things can change for the better soon but I have my doubts.
    Real progress and promotion seem furher away now than they did 3-4 years ago.
    Imho it will take more than one season and we'll go backwards again before real positive changes work through.

    Sorry if that's negative but it's how I feel after too many recent seasons of hopes dashed.



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    mcsilks

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    Re: first 6 minutes of Derby football

    Post by mcsilks on Fri 13 Apr 2018, 3:02 pm

    RRC wrote:
    mcsilks wrote:I see sides around us that have a much lesser wage bill and have spent considerably less than we have that are laced with young talent and play a very measured brand of football. They can play ugly and win, they can play some great football and win. I don't believe we are capable of that and after the money we have spent, and the contracts we have given out, I feel that our fans deserve the right to have a side that is capable of playing some good football.

    mcsilks wrote:I am negative about our style of play because we play in a completely reactive as a pose to a proactive way.

    Re. recruitment and spending
    Imho the problem has been our poor scouting (or lack of) and it's been so for a long time.
    If we want a talented player, we usually go for a player already established and proven in the UK.
    As a result, we pay high UK prices and are persuaded or forced to accept long contracts.
    Or we sign older players who are out of contract and give them terms that their current clubs are unwilling to offer.
    Other clubs scout abroad and pay local prices or spot a promising lower league player before a bidding war starts.
    We rarely, if ever, get there first, which leads on to my (your) second point --

    Re. reactive v proactive
    I agree that we aren't pro-active.
    But we aren't really reactive either -- I'd say that 'passive' is a more accurate description.
    GR has decided on one formation and one style of play and we stick to it regardless.
    He seems to ignore how the opposition set up and play, as if that doesn't matter or it comes as a surprise.
    What does GR do when it's obvious in the first 15-20 minutes that our way is not going to work?
    Anything other than like-for-like substitutions or a minor change when it's too late?

    If this is the Derby way, it's high time we tried something different.
    I hope things can change for the better soon but I have my doubts.
    Real progress and promotion seem furher away now than they did 3-4 years ago.
    Imho it will take more than one season and we'll go backwards again before real positive changes work through.

    Sorry if that's negative but it's how I feel after too many recent seasons of hopes dashed.


    I wholeheartedly agree with all of that RRC.

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