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    Richard Keogh

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    New England Ram
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    Re: Richard Keogh

    Post by New England Ram on Sat 04 Aug 2018, 4:19 am

    Just watched the game having listened to it on Radio Derby.
    First half was forgettable from both teams not just Derby but not anywhere near as depressing as radio Derby or fans ht comments made it sound.
    Usual melodramatic response to Keoghs two blunders that did not lead to goals as Carson did what he’s paid for on one occasion.
    Keogh played through it readjusted as did the team and got the job done.
    Lampard selected him so if Lampard is the messiah many are making him out to be then we need to respect his judgment and trust him to readjust his position on Keogh if he sees fit.
    But for me the hysteria that was flying around social media before the first half was even over is way over the top.



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    Stockport Ram

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    Re: Richard Keogh

    Post by Stockport Ram on Sat 04 Aug 2018, 7:20 am

    THREE mistakes. The two passes and a schoolboy header towards the D from his own 6 yard line, which should also have resulted in a goal.
    First rule of defending, head it AWAY from the centre of the pitch, not towards it.

    Its not hysteria, its fact.

    How people can't see his fundamental weakness is truly beyond me.

    Yes, everyone makes mistakes, but most people learn from them. He is, was, and always will be an accident waiting to happen.
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    whestonram

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    Re: Richard Keogh

    Post by whestonram on Sat 04 Aug 2018, 8:33 am

    Stockport Ram wrote:THREE mistakes.  The two passes and a schoolboy header towards the D from his own 6 yard line, which should also have resulted in a goal.
    First rule of defending,  head it AWAY from the centre of the pitch,  not towards it.

    Its not hysteria, its fact.

    How people can't see his fundamental weakness is truly beyond me.

    Yes, everyone makes mistakes, but most people learn from them. He is, was, and always will be an accident waiting to happen.

    It is fact, much as I don't like to say it. The defence were constantly pressed and all four of them struggled with it, but Keogh was the only one who passed the ball to the opposition. Teams will keep doing it to us until we learn to cope and use the fact they're high up the pitch to our advantage, so hopefully Keogh will improve. Or be replaced.
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    Stockport Ram

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    Re: Richard Keogh

    Post by Stockport Ram on Sat 04 Aug 2018, 8:43 am

    whestonram wrote:
    Stockport Ram wrote:THREE mistakes.  The two passes and a schoolboy header towards the D from his own 6 yard line, which should also have resulted in a goal.
    First rule of defending,  head it AWAY from the centre of the pitch,  not towards it.

    Its not hysteria, its fact.

    How people can't see his fundamental weakness is truly beyond me.

    Yes, everyone makes mistakes, but most people learn from them. He is, was, and always will be an accident waiting to happen.

    It is fact, much as I don't like to say it. The defence were constantly pressed and all four of them struggled with it, but Keogh was the only one who passed the ball to the opposition. Teams will keep doing it to us until we learn to cope and use the fact they're high up the pitch to our advantage, so hopefully Keogh will improve. Or be replaced.

    That's the biggest learning curve of Frank's way of playing. Unfortunately, with the possible exception of Max Lowe,  none of the first choice back five are particularly comfortable on the ball and playing out from the back.

    It was always going to be this team's achilles' heel,  but they will get better at it.

    How much better remains to be seen.
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    MadAmster

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    Re: Richard Keogh

    Post by MadAmster on Sat 04 Aug 2018, 8:55 am

    They all made mistakes yesterday and will continue to do so. They will learn. Some better and quicker than others.

    We got away with 3 errors from our "vice captain". If those incidents had happened at the other end of the park I would have been disappointed not to have scored from at least one of them.

    Therein lies the root of the hysteria, IMO. When others misplace a pass or simply lose the ball there is either time to make amends yourself, have a team mate help you out of the mire or you have a friendly opponent who passes on the opportunity to score. Most of Keogh's errors seem to lead to either a scoring opportunity or a goal.

    We got away with it yesterday. A recurrence on Saturday will probably not have the same amount of luck........

    The hysteria? It is just that. People need to remember that RK is not the Messiah, he is a £1M Championship defender. That means he is no Roy McFarland and no Igor Stimac.

    All things being equal, he has got half a season's blunders out of the way in the opening game and we won it. Let's hope so. If not, we can move Wisdom inside and put Bogle at right back.

    Talking Wisdom, in the spirit of fainess and balance, why did he give their bloke time and space to put in what was an excellent cross that was majestically met and thundered past Carson who had absolutely no chance? Keogh got away with 3 and gets hammered for it. Wisdom makes 1 that led to a goal and I have seen no criticism of him........
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    Stockport Ram

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    Re: Richard Keogh

    Post by Stockport Ram on Sat 04 Aug 2018, 9:42 am

    Richard Keogh isn't a very naughty boy, either, MA !!

    Curtis Davies cost £500k.

    You talk good sense, as always.

    I would say that, in my opinion, so many more of RK's mistakes end up not being punished. He got away with his blunders in the first 25-30 games last season exactly because they didn't lead to goals. Admittedly, he made fewer mistakes in the first two thirds of the season and it was comfortably his best in a Derby shirt when taken as a whole. He certainly reverted to type when Rowett took the handbrake off and stopped protecting the defence with Hudds as our plan to "defend and nick a goal" stopped working, as you would expect it to, at the business end.

    He can do splendid things, can Richard. That's why I get so frustrated with him. He's limited, but that's why he's in the championship, not Real Madrid, I get that.

    Its only my burning and deep rooted passion for this club that we all love so much, and our shared desire for its success, which makes me go off on one occassionally.

    I apologise if I have offended anyone.
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    Re: Richard Keogh

    Post by SawleyRam on Sat 04 Aug 2018, 10:50 am

    Stockport Ram wrote:Richard Keogh isn't a very naughty boy,  either, MA  !!

    Curtis Davies cost £500k.

    You talk good sense, as always.  

    I would say that, in my opinion, so many more of RK's mistakes end up not being punished. He got away with his blunders in the first 25-30 games last season exactly because they didn't lead to goals. Admittedly, he made fewer mistakes in the first two thirds of the season and it was comfortably his best in a Derby shirt when taken as a whole.  He certainly  reverted to type when Rowett took the handbrake off and stopped protecting the defence with Hudds as our plan to "defend and nick a goal" stopped working, as you would expect it to, at the business end.

    He can do splendid things,  can Richard. That's why I get so frustrated with him.  He's limited, but that's why he's in the championship, not Real Madrid, I get that.

    Its only my burning and deep rooted passion for this club that we all love so much, and our shared desire for its success, which makes me go off on one occassionally.

    I apologise if I have offended anyone.

    You are entitled to your opinions Stockie so no need for apologies, I realise that Keogh can be a liability at times but it makes no sense to me how he can be overly criticized for 2 possibly 3 mistakes when others around him were just as poor. Keogh made some brilliant defensive maneuvers but non of that was mentioned to balance the view. I realise he is the Rams fall guy.
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    valakari

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    Re: Richard Keogh

    Post by valakari on Sat 04 Aug 2018, 11:04 am

    ALL our defenders gave the ball away..as did Ledley which lead to their goal. Admittedly Keogh made a couple of poor passes, but please dont ignore Davies, Lowe and Wisdom..oh and most of the others as well who also gave it away. Maybe the Reading pressing in the 1st half contributed to many of these mistakes..and as they ran out of steam..it made it easier to pass!
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    Re: Richard Keogh

    Post by RRC on Sat 04 Aug 2018, 11:31 am

    valakari wrote:ALL our defenders gave the ball away..as did Ledley which lead to their goal. Admittedly Keogh made a couple of poor passes, but please dont ignore Davies, Lowe and Wisdom..oh and most of the others as well who also gave it away. Maybe the Reading pressing in the 1st half contributed to many of these mistakes..and as they ran out of steam..it made it easier to pass!

    Some of our defenders were better than others overall though --

    Pass accuracy against Reading
    90.6% Ledley
    87.2% Davies
    83.9% Carson (a big improvement over last season for him - Given's influence?)
    83.3% Keogh
    69.2% Lowe
    67.3% Wisdom

    Lowe and Wisdom's percentage would be reduced a bit during attacking runs but
    that also suggests that they weren't much of an attacking threat against Reading.

    Keogh, when he's not making horrible mistakes, is more positive and better at
    linking and starting attacks than Davies, who tends to be more cautious and careful.

    Personal plea
    I wish we could stop singling out players for OTT criticism (shite really?)  - and also stop
    excusing our favourite players' limitations when they're nothing special or have an off day.
    Can we try to be fair to ALL our own players?



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    New England Ram
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    Re: Richard Keogh

    Post by New England Ram on Sat 04 Aug 2018, 12:14 pm

    Stockport Ram wrote:Richard Keogh isn't a very naughty boy,  either, MA  !!

    Curtis Davies cost £500k.

    You talk good sense, as always.  

    I would say that, in my opinion, so many more of RK's mistakes end up not being punished. He got away with his blunders in the first 25-30 games last season exactly because they didn't lead to goals. Admittedly, he made fewer mistakes in the first two thirds of the season and it was comfortably his best in a Derby shirt when taken as a whole.  He certainly  reverted to type when Rowett took the handbrake off and stopped protecting the defence with Hudds as our plan to "defend and nick a goal" stopped working, as you would expect it to, at the business end.

    He can do splendid things,  can Richard. That's why I get so frustrated with him.  He's limited, but that's why he's in the championship, not Real Madrid, I get that.

    Its only my burning and deep rooted passion for this club that we all love so much, and our shared desire for its success, which makes me go off on one occassionally.

    I apologise if I have offended anyone.
    Not offended me Stocky opinion is opinion that’s what we are here for and my hysteria comment wasn’t aimed at you but at Twitter world where you would have thought Keogh had been slitting kids throats .



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    Re: Richard Keogh

    Post by Mitten State Ram on Sat 04 Aug 2018, 1:34 pm

    Still far too many completed passes going backwards.

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