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    Birmingham 2-2 Derby reports and comments

    RRC
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    Birmingham 2-2 Derby reports and comments Empty Birmingham 2-2 Derby reports and comments

    Post by RRC on Fri 19 Apr 2019, 5:04 pm

    After the fine home performance against Bolton, Derby kept that winning side to start the game at St Andrews.
    Evans and Nugent joined the subs bench, instead of Bird and Josefzoon.
          Roos
          Bogle Keogh Tomori Cole
          Bryson Johnson Mount
          Wilson Waghorn Lawrence
          subs Carson Wisdom Evans Huddlestone Bennett Nugent Marriott
    Birmingham made one change to the team that drew 1-1 at Ipswich.

    Birmingham won a corner in the opening moments and Jutkiewicz scored on 2 minutes, helped by typically poor
    set piece defending by Keogh. A brilliant solo effort by Waghorn, where he beat the offside trap and ex-Ram
    Camp, levelled the scores on 7 minutes, with an assist by Bogle. The next Brum set piece led to another corner
    and another soft goal, scored by Morrison, and a 2-1 home lead on 19 minutes. Waghorn set up Wilson but
    Camp saved his shot. Birmingham played route one football, with neither of Derby's centre backs able to stop
    Jutkiewicz from winning the first header. On 28 minutes, a short corner allowed Keogh to make amends for
    his earlier mistake with a good header from Cole's cross to equalize on 2-2.

    Derby had more possession than Brum but they couldn't create any decisive openings, and the Rams defence
    sat back too far, a long way behind the midfield three, who struggled against Brum's four. Bryson was booked
    for complaining to the referee - Gardener should have been booked for numoerous foul tackles. An exciting
    first half was marred by Derby's very poor defending at set pieces. Derby played a lot of route one football like
    Brum, because Bryson and Johnson, unlike Mount, made little impression against their stronger opponents.
    HT Birmingham 2-2 Derby

    Early in the second half, Brum had another corner but Jutkiewicz headed over the bar. The game settled down
    because neither side was quite so committed to attacking. The Derby defence went back to dropping off, leaving
    Brum's attackers unmarked, and passing slowly and inaccurately instead of clearing the ball. Another Brum
    corner presented them with another free header but they didn't score. Maghoma should have scored from their
    next attack. Too many Derby players looked tired, some were just passengers - they weren't marking or
    attacking.

    Marriott and Bennett replaced Waghorn and Wilson on 71 minutes, keeping the same 4-3-3 system, despie the.
    obvious mismatch, which had Derby struggling. Mount broke down the left and made a fine cross but Bryson
    couldn't reach it. Jutkiewicz was injured and he was replaced on 79 minutes by the speedy Vassell. Derby's
    attacking chances often broke down because Lawrence and Bennett lack Waghorn's and Mount's ball control
    and accurate passing. Nugent came on for Lawrence on 84 minutes. Tomori had three shots but Camp saved
    all of them. After defending in depth and hanging on for some time, Brum attacked in added time and won two
    corners but they couldn't add to their score. Derby might have won but for some really dreadful defending and
    having to use Johnson as a third centre back.
    FT Birmingham 2-2 Derby

    Derby stay 8th, three points behind Boro (6th, beat Stoke) and two behind Bristol (7th, drew with Reading).



    Birmingham 2-2 Derby reports and comments Snoopy12
    Stockport Ram
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    Post by Stockport Ram on Fri 19 Apr 2019, 6:22 pm

    Its a good job he scored.

    Christ he was all over the place in the first half an hour - the two goalscorers were his men and there were two or three suicidal sideways passes in both halves to Tomori and Johnners.

    Your centre half cannot be standing on the penalty spot waiving his arms around when they score at a defensive corner.

    Anyway, lets not pick out individual errors, eh? Even if they are a walking IED, and have been all season.

    Ashley Cole MOTM, Wilson and Lawrence anonymous, Roos cemented his place. Waghorn the nearest thing we have to a target man and did pretty well.

    Bogle gets better and better with every game.

    Didn't deserve all three, and I would have taken a net "no loss" to Brizzle before the day started, so not too bad.


    DavesaRam
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    Post by DavesaRam on Fri 19 Apr 2019, 6:58 pm

    A very interesting match, and I would have settled for a point before kick-off, knowing how physical Birmingham are, and given our away form. What I didn't expect was for Derby to have a physical approach to the game. This should be interesting - watch the bookings mount up for Derby players!

    Apart from the two doses of poor defending, we mostly kept Birmingham at bay, and asked plenty of questions of them ourselves. And the character to twice come from behind was excellent.

    Waghorn's goal was excellently taken - he barely looked at goal and took the ball on the first touch - no need to control first, just straight on with lobbing the keeper. And it couldn't have happened to a nicer keeper! Keogh's was well taken. Did anyone notice Keogh peel away to the back of the box as the short corner was developing? This was obviously something they had worked on at the training ground. And did anyone notice the shirt pull on Keogh as he began to peel away? Should have been a penalty, but a goal instead will do!

    We could have had another bonanza of penalties, with the clear handball from Lawrence's shot/cross. but it is possible that the ref was unsighted, although short-sighted is more likely. He certainly was seeing Bryson being clearly pulled to the ground in the second half, which was another nailed on peno tiurned down. Perhaps there ought to be league for the most blatant penalties not given. We would be clear of all other teams by a country mile.

    As ever the refereeing was sub-standard. Mount got clattered I don't know how many times before a yellow card ensued, yet Bryson gets booked for protesting that yet another piece of thuggery. Cole got booked for his first offence, but Gardener shouldn't have even lasted till half-time.

    All square at half-time, and I was expecting us to go on and win because the defence did seem to settle down, but in reality we actually didn't show for the second half until about 70 minutes when the subs appeared. instead we reverted to Chuckle Brothers attack play from the back. When we did play it long into the channels stuff started to happen, and it could have gone either way for the last 20 minutes.

    It was certainly a lot better than the non-turn ups in so many away games, and although we needed all 3 points, I am actually happy with the draw. Incidentally, I would put Cole as man of the match, as he had an excellent match, and wasn't caught out for pace. Apparently Birmingham didn't water the pitch before the match. The ball tends to skid and pick up pace off wet grass, but today's pitch it simply bounced and picked up spin. That a wet pitch tends to suit a ball-playing team says plenty about the difference between the two teams! And well done Derby for injecting a bit of physicality to their game.
    Loughborough Ram
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    Post by Loughborough Ram on Fri 19 Apr 2019, 9:33 pm

    I thought that the ref was terrible, Jutkievicz and Gardner should have both been sent off, we should have had a penalty, possibly 2 and he missed (or ignored) countless clear fouls for both teams.

    We still seem to be playing without Harry Wilson, which we can ill afford to do, hopefully he will have a telling contribution in the remaining games which sparks him back to life.

    My fingers are still crossed that we make the play offs but it seems that it will go down to the wire.
    MadAmster
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    Post by MadAmster on Fri 19 Apr 2019, 10:04 pm

    My original post was accidentally deleted it seems so I will try to reproduce it from memory..........

    Keeping it short and simple, we got done by the ref.

    2nd minute Brum got a corner, Keogh tried to boot it away, got a poor contact, the ball fell on Jutkiewicz's foot and into the net.

    7th minute, Waggy volleys a long booted clearance from Bogle over Camp and into the net. Camp got a hand to it but couldn't keep it out.

    Their 2nd corner saw them score again. It should have been disallowed. Bogle failed to clear properly because a Brum attacker was pulling him back by his shirt. The ball fell to Morrison who put it away. Obvious foul and should have been disallowed.

    Training ground corner routine works, Cole crosses and Keogh heads it in. Again Camp got a hand to it but couldn't stop it.

    2nd minute 1st half injury time we should have had a penalty, 100% nailed on certain penalty, for handball. Ref didn't give it and Bryson got booked for complaining too loudly.

    2nd half we started poorly but got back into the game.

    75th minute Bryson (?) brought down in the box going for a loose ball. Penalty for everybody in the stadium........... except for the prat with the whistle who decided it wasn't a foul.

    Game ended 2-2. Should have been 1-4. Maybe 2-4 if they had had that late penalty claim honoured but IMO it wasn't one.

    We got done by the ref............ again.


    Last edited by MadAmster on Sat 20 Apr 2019, 8:27 am; edited 1 time in total
    valakari
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    Post by valakari on Fri 19 Apr 2019, 10:10 pm

    Agree with all that.
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    Post by mcsilks on Sat 20 Apr 2019, 12:50 am

    The ref was this, the ref was that.

    This might be true, but it just covers up the fact that we are simply not good enough.

    We were lucky to escape with a point out of this one. Time and time again we failed to mark their players in our box and it was only down to their poor finishing.

    I actually felt sorry for our defence, as our midfield offered no protection at all and further to that, they were static so didn't create any space for our defence to pass to.

    Ashley Cole had a decent game and oh what a finish from Waghorn, but sadly this performance mainly highlighted the absolute and total lack of creativity and ideas that we lack in this side.


    Last edited by mcsilks on Sat 20 Apr 2019, 1:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by valakari on Sat 20 Apr 2019, 12:53 am

    The stark reality is that we havent improved at all since the play off final year under MaClaren!
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    Post by New England Ram on Sat 20 Apr 2019, 6:34 am

    mcsilks wrote:The ref was this, the ref was that.

    This might be true, but it just covers up the fact that we are simply not good enough.

    We were lucky to escape with a point out of this one. Time and time again we failed to mark their players in our box and it was only down to their poor finishing.

    I actually felt sorry for our defence, as our midfield offered no protection at all and further to that, they were static so didn't create any space for our defence to pass to.

    Ashley Cole had a decent game and oh what a finish from Waghorn, but sadly this performance mainly highlighted the absolute and total lack of creativity and ideas that we lack in this side.

    Agreed not good enough strong enough or dynamic enough.
    Throughout the season there has always been one department of the team that was not doing it.
    If the defense was doing ok the forwards would be missing the forwards could be ok and the defense would be missing and likewise with the mid and other sections of the team.
    Rarely have all three components of the team clicked on the same day..West Brom away possibly one of the big exceptions.
    Just didn’t have enough quality or depth along with consistency to ever be a serious challenger for promotion.



    Birmingham 2-2 Derby reports and comments Nersig10
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    Post by MadAmster on Sat 20 Apr 2019, 8:40 am

    mcsilks wrote:The ref was this, the ref was that.

    This might be true, but it just covers up the fact that we are simply not good enough.


    Let's, for the sake of argument, erase 3 of the ref's mistakes. Disallow their 2nd and have us scoring both the penalties we should have had. A 1-4 away win.

    The MF was too static, we continue to mark zones rather than players at the back but those are the instructions given to the back 4 

    If we had won that 1-4 wouldn't folk be saying something akin to "results like that when you have had a bad day at the office are the stuff good sides are made of?

    You keep reading how very many top sides there are in this League....... DCFC is still up there with a shout of making the playoffs. How can that be if a) the League really is strong and b) we are as poor as some suggest?
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    Post by mcsilks on Sat 20 Apr 2019, 11:50 am

    MadAmster wrote:
    You keep reading how very many top sides there are in this League....... DCFC is still up there with a shout of making the playoffs. How can that be if a) the League really is strong and b) we are as poor as some suggest?

    I'm not sure that many suggest we are poor...not very good, but not poor. I don't think we are good enough to challenge with the top sides as we lack any real consistency.

    I certainly don't think that the Championship is a strong league, but then again I don't think there's much difference between those sides at the bottom of the Premiership and those competing at the top of our league.

    What concerns me is if you take out our loan players, I do think we would have a poor side. They make the difference.
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    Post by New England Ram on Sat 20 Apr 2019, 12:23 pm

    The loan players have played a big part in what success we have had..being old school I hate the loan system.
    That said this has been our best season ever for making use of the system and the quality Frank got in and over the last few seasons numerous clubs have gone up with multiple loan players playing a big part in their success .



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    Post by MadAmster on Sat 20 Apr 2019, 2:21 pm

    Whatever your views on half or full season player hiring, Kimo Sabe, (when was the last proper loan?) I think we will be keeping the loan arranger busy again this summer.
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    Post by CornwallRam on Sat 20 Apr 2019, 2:59 pm

    What I think is concerning is that only 4 players in yesterday's starting 11 are currently contracted to be here next season. Assuming we don't go up, next season could be a bit tricky.
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    Post by New England Ram on Sat 20 Apr 2019, 3:21 pm

    CornwallRam wrote:What I think is concerning is that only 4 players in yesterday's starting 11 are currently contracted to be here next season. Assuming we don't go up, next season could be a bit tricky.
    Or really good !...but I agree most likely tricky



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    Post by bramhallram on Mon 22 Apr 2019, 7:26 am

    CornwallRam wrote:What I think is concerning is that only 4 players in yesterday's starting 11 are currently contracted to be here next season. Assuming we don't go up, next season could be a bit tricky.

    Agreed. What is also concerning is that the top three in the MOTM table are all 'on loan' players.

    .

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