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    So what do you think about VAR now??

    Li 150
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    Post by Li 150 on Sat 24 Aug 2019, 3:10 pm

    A penalty to Derby that probably wasn't
    A penalty to WBA that definitely wasn't
    A penalty save that was not legal
    Many toenails that were offside but not given

    Was the game better or worse for not having VAR?



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    Post by MadAmster on Sat 24 Aug 2019, 3:15 pm

    With VAR we wouldn't have had the 2nd and 3rd penalties given and Derby would have had 3 points rather than just the 1.

    GizzaVAR.
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    Post by DavesaRam on Sat 24 Aug 2019, 10:12 pm

    Should the West Brom diver be given a retrospective punishment for deceiving the ref?
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    Post by SawleyRam on Sat 24 Aug 2019, 10:28 pm

    DavesaRam wrote:Should the West Brom diver be given a retrospective punishment for deceiving the ref?

    That's a fair question Dave, but it should read "Should the referee be given a retrospective punishment for deceiving.......



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    Post by New England Ram on Sat 24 Aug 2019, 11:09 pm

    Don’t care ref got conned don’t want VAR just a 2 game suspension for clear cheating .



    So what do you think about VAR now?? Nersig10
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    Post by Stockport Ram on Sun 25 Aug 2019, 8:47 am

    None of the three were clear penalties.

    We have only ourselves to blame for not winning.

    No VAR thanks.
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    Post by Loughborough Ram on Sun 25 Aug 2019, 9:37 am

    Ref has excuses for giving our two penalties, theirs however was inexcusable. He had a clear unobstructed view, from the perfect angle and yet chose to give it anyway. It was absolutely clear from his position that the contact was made by their player in order to go down and for whatever reason he chose to get it wrong.

    I suspect that he thought that if he didn't give it that he may get lynched by the baggies team as they had aggressively confronted him after almost every decision that he gave to us. I also think that he had it in his mind to give them a penalty to even up our second one which the linesman chose to put his neck on the line and give, he shouldn't have as it clearly wasn't and we didn't make anything of it.

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    Post by SawleyRam on Sun 25 Aug 2019, 12:13 pm

    I don't see what the problem with VAR is, 100% of the time it gives the correct decision which is better than the best referee out there, the problem lies with the interpretation of rules which is a human inconsistency that has to be employed, that being said it is safer to blame a machine than it's human masters! Stirring the pot



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    Post by New England Ram on Sun 25 Aug 2019, 12:38 pm

    SawleyRam wrote:I don't see what the problem with VAR is, 100% of the time it gives the correct decision which is better than the best referee out there, the problem lies with the interpretation of rules which is a human inconsistency that has to be employed, that being said it is safer to blame a machine than it's human masters! Stirring the pot

    Sawl I would much rather have the discussion and debate after the game as to if the ref got a decision right or wrong than a five minute delay during the game which starts with the ref sticking his finger in his ear then playing charades . Those five minutes will soon be sponsored by someone and probably include cheerleaders at some stage in the future.
    It will always be a big no to the Americanization of our game for me.
    Ref got it wrong yesterday it happens and you know we were all taught as youngsters to accept the refs decision rightly or wrongly.



    So what do you think about VAR now?? Nersig10
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    Post by need therapy on Sun 25 Aug 2019, 1:30 pm

    Nothing wrong with VAR in my opinion. If cricket and rugby can make it work why can’t football ?
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    Post by New England Ram on Sun 25 Aug 2019, 2:29 pm

    need therapy wrote:Nothing wrong with VAR in my opinion. If cricket and rugby can make it work why can’t football ?

    Cricket for obvious reasons as the game is all about standing around.
    And even Rugby ( to me at least) has more natural breaks in the game than football.
    Football should be ( although it isn’t anymore) 90 minutes of uninterrupted mayhem.



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    Post by DavesaRam on Sun 25 Aug 2019, 3:43 pm

    SawleyRam wrote:
    DavesaRam wrote:Should the West Brom diver be given a retrospective punishment for deceiving the ref?

    That's a fair question Dave, but it should read "Should the referee be given a r:coyr: etrospective punishment for deceiving.......

    LOL roll LOL roll COYR
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    Post by SawleyRam on Sun 25 Aug 2019, 6:55 pm

    DavesaRam wrote:
    SawleyRam wrote:
    DavesaRam wrote:Should the West Brom diver be given a retrospective punishment for deceiving the ref?

    That's a fair question Dave, but it should read "Should the referee be given a r:coyr: etrospective punishment for deceiving.......

    LOL roll LOL roll COYR

    Thumbs up



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    Post by MadAmster on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 8:41 am

    IMO that WBA player should get a ban and it is permissible under the regulations.
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    Post by Loughborough Ram on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 9:01 am

    But surely the fact that the referee was in the perfect position with an unobstructed view means that he wasn't decieved, he just chose to give it.

    To ban the player in Saturdays circumstances would be the clearest case of re-refereeing a game after the event and would totally undermine the credibility of this referee and referees in general.
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    Post by New England Ram on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 12:06 pm

    Loughborough Ram wrote:But surely the fact that the referee was in the perfect position with an unobstructed view means that he wasn't decieved, he just chose to give it.

    To ban the player in Saturdays circumstances would be the clearest case of re-refereeing a game after the event and would totally undermine the credibility of this referee and referees in general.

    We can only presume he was in the perfect position to see it though Loughie.
    All camera angles are deceptive and unless we are looking through a camera strapped to his head we can’t be 100% about how he saw it.
    Took about four or five different replays and I still wasn’t convinced either way.
    But in this day and age if someone comes up with a shot that says we have yet another cheating diver then I’m all for sending a message after the fact.



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    Post by Loughborough Ram on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 12:16 pm

    Me too, but the authorities won't unfortunately.

    I have to say though mate, if anything the ref had a better view than any of the camera angles I've seen and out of those various camera angles only the one at the back of West stand made it look like a penalty.

    This was an inept piece of refereeing in my opinion and unforgivably it was given with an element of 'evening things up' in mind in my opinion.

    I don't like VAR personally, I think it's wanted by referees, is run by referees, for the benefit of referees, and has very little to do with benefitting either the game itself or the fans.
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    Post by New England Ram on Wed 28 Aug 2019, 5:31 am

    Loughborough Ram wrote:Me too, but the authorities won't unfortunately.

    I have to say though mate, if anything the ref had a better view than any of the camera angles I've seen and out of those various camera angles only the one at the back of West stand made it look like a penalty.

    This was an inept piece of refereeing in my opinion and unforgivably it was given with an element of 'evening things up' in mind in my opinion.

    I don't like VAR personally, I think it's wanted by referees, is run by referees, for the benefit of referees, and has very little to do with benefitting either the game itself or the fans.

    Just hate what football has become to be honest Loughie I’m only really still tied to it because of the Rams.
    I get little from the game I can’t stand the saturated media coverage and the intolerance of sections of our own fan base drives me crazy.
    Already fans calling for Cocu to be gone..it’s insane.



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    Post by Loughborough Ram on Sun 01 Sep 2019, 8:33 am

    I'm at the point now with VAR, where I have to question whether the referees are genuinely taking the p*ss.

    Yesterday again there was a plethora of inexplicable VAR moments that just defied logic. From the blatently ridiculous tackle by Tielemans on Calum Wilson to the slightly more complex Grealish incident at Palace.

    If any referee can justify those two situations that played out then they could become the worlds greatest salesman.

    If the referees sole purpose is to destroy any credibility VAR may have then they are doing it in double quick time
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    Post by MadAmster on Sun 01 Sep 2019, 9:07 am

    As a ref myself, I absolutely do not understand the Grealish incident. There is contact and then, in his stumble, he passes the ball to a teammate who lashes it into the net. Grealish then gets penalised for simulation and gets a yellow card.

    Ask youself, when did you last see a diiving player execute a pass to a teammate stood in acres of space, 12 yards from goal?

    As you all know, I am in favour of VAR and, when used properly, it works. In the PL it is not currebtly being used properly and, as Loughie intimated, if refs are out to destroy VAR's credibility, they are doing an excellent job of it.
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    Post by Stockport Ram on Sun 01 Sep 2019, 9:45 am

    Lets look at another incident.

    Salah had his foot solidly trodden on as he manoevred sideways towards the end of the game yesterday, the ball was still within his reach. He was beaten to it with a sweet finish by Firmino to make it 3-0.

    Had that have been in a time when VAR wasn't in place, would he have gone down? In Ammy's words, there was definite contact, and should it therefore have been a pen? The ref did well by not whistling too quickly, but that was his role pre VAR too.

    No. He was able to stay up , and did so. Great credit to him.

    If VAR makes more players stay on their feet when they obviously can inside (and outside) the penalty area, then although two wrongs dont make a right, at least the bcklash against over reiance on it appears to be having some positive effect.

    Scientists have proven that with the shutter speed of VAR frames, there is a margin of error of 13 cm between onside and offside, because the exact millisecond when the pass is made is rarely captured on a frame.

    This begs the question - when is an offside a "clear and obvious" error?  13 cm? 13.01 cm? 26 cm? one foot and 13.1cm?

    Clear and obvious based on the scientific evidence I have alluded to makes the decision arbitrary, even if the law interpretors agree on a "clear and obvious" distance. Ergo, VAR is arbitrary on offsides AS WELL AS tackles, which WILL ALWAYS be a matter of opinion.

    Stick with the man in the middle and don't muddle with it.  Case for the defence closed, M'Lud. The jury should only take five minutes or so....
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    Post by MadAmster on Sun 01 Sep 2019, 5:04 pm

    You may be reading more into my comments on the Grealish issue than I either wrote or intended Stockers.

    There was contact, yes. That is not an excuse for a player to fall over. The contact HAS to be sufficient to cause the player to fall. In this case, IMO, Grealish's falling over is irrelevant. He passed the ball, made no claim for a foul, pass received and thumped into the net. He might have simulated the celebration but that was all.
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    Post by SawleyRam on Sun 01 Sep 2019, 10:17 pm

    MadAmster wrote:You may be reading more into my comments on the Grealish issue than I either wrote or intended Stockers.

    There was contact, yes. That is not an excuse for a player to fall over. The contact HAS to be sufficient to cause the player to fall. In this case, IMO, Grealish's falling over is irrelevant. He passed the ball, made no claim for a foul, pass received and thumped into the net. He might have simulated the celebration but that was all.

    A human frailty might be involved here, Grealish has been known, to "embellish" non existent penalty claims in the past, the ref saw this incident and decided his eyes told a different story to the one that Grealish wanted him to believe. Remember the old fairy tale of the boy that cried wolf.......



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    Post by MadAmster on Mon 02 Sep 2019, 8:25 am

    SawleyRam wrote:
    MadAmster wrote:You may be reading more into my comments on the Grealish issue than I either wrote or intended Stockers.

    There was contact, yes. That is not an excuse for a player to fall over. The contact HAS to be sufficient to cause the player to fall. In this case, IMO, Grealish's falling over is irrelevant. He passed the ball, made no claim for a foul, pass received and thumped into the net. He might have simulated the celebration but that was all.

    A human frailty might be involved here, Grealish has been known, to "embellish" non existent penalty claims in the past, the ref saw this incident and decided his eyes told a different story to the one that Grealish wanted him to believe. Remember the old fairy tale of the boy that cried wolf.......

    You may be right Sawls as we know only too well with Martin in the past and, IMO, Wilson last season.

    Refs are supposed to judge what they see as opposed to adding in all manner of other reference material based on previous. However, they are human and do use previous to help with a judgment. Witness the WBA penalty..........

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